One More CLC Stockton Question
 

A thought occurred to me while watching the webcast of Christian Life Center Stockton this morning. During the announcements they announced their Sunday evening service was at their other location (the old church campus). I knew they had their midweek service at the older smaller building but didn't realize they also had a Sunday night service there.

Based on the limited view I had this morning of the congregation and the views I have had of it before it appears to me that the new building is mostly empty on Sunday morning. I have been told it seats around 5,000 and it looks like at most there are 1,500 people there. If I recall correctly the old sanctuary seated about 3,000 people? Somebody who knows please confirm or correct me.

In any case it appears that the Sunday morning congregation would easily fit in the old sanctuary. Unless I am wrong in that thought my question is why doesn't the church sell the new Sanctuary and property if it is not needed? Clearly they have not seen the growth they anticipated when it was built years ago. The cost of operating and maintaining two large locations must be consdierable.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Ego?

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Ego? I want to think not, rather "spiritual foresight"!

The prophet Joel, speaking for God, stated that He "hath given you the former rain moderately."

MODERATELY implies that which is average in size or amount, neither too much nor too little.

If it be that either the day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost was first given, or the events that transpired at the beginning of the 20th Century, represented the "former rain" being given of God only MODERATELY, and seeing Joel prophesied of a "latter rain" that is yet to come to pass, then I, like many others, hold to the belief that as the time of the end draws ever near, we are to witness a "revival" unparalleled in the history of the church!

Is not the opposite of MODERATELY that of an ABUNDANCE?

Albeit I am a proponent of what is commonly called "Home Churches," nevertheless I can foresee a need for large facilities to accommodate a mighty "revival" of the church, especially in such a large metropolitan area as Stockton and the adjoining communities. Therefore my suggestion would be that they do all that is possible to retain possession of the larger facility, perhaps "moth-balling" it until needed.

REVIVAL is coming! The "harvest" is so great, and we MUST continually pray to the Lord of the harvest that He send even more workers to bring that "harvest" into the storehouse (aka, the church) while there is yet time!

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

When Elder Haney decided to build it, he went to headquarters and turned it over to his son Nathaniel.

If elder Haney would not have went to headquarters and stayed there, the church would have probably doubled.

The old sanctuary seats possibly 1800 when packed....

We were there over 20 years and helped in several building projects.

The problem I have with Nathaniel is he is not diplomatic with those with differing viewpoints. He said one too many times.."if you dont agree with me, just leave"....well many folks JUST LEFT!

Elder Haney would be diplomatic and fight for your allegiance, even come to your house...also, he never forgot your name, no matter who you were.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

You are not the first person with a long time association with CLC who has pointed out that Nate does not have his fathers people skills and that has cost them dearly in members. I had great respect for what Kenneth Haney accomplished in Stockton with the church, Bible College, and radio stations. I also agree that if he had stayed and not gone to HQ the ministry would have continued its trajectory of growth and the new sanctuary would make perfect sense.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

I visited CLC on a Sunday morning on Mother's Day 2014. The building is humongous, but looks empty with even 1,500 or so people in it. In retrospect, it appears that they got caught up in the large auditorium faze of modern Christianity. Like many others, they get burned when there was new leadership.

A smarter move would have been to build a new build that seated 2,000 and had two services on Sunday morning when they needed it. Now, it get filled only a couple times a year when there is a national conference or district camp meeting.

I've been told that it's a nice building (I thought it looked nice, but average) in a bad area of town. Good luck selling an auditorium that large!

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

There were many road blocks in the way of building it before it was started. Bro. Haney halted it from starting with only a bare piece of land in possession for years. Preachers started coming along and "prophecying" that God wants it built over the pulpit, then Bro. Haney listened to them and pushed to get it going "by faith"....what a headache it was and financially still is.
I will never get involved in another building program as long as I live...LOL

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Our church leases our space and is debt free. I would rather own but our pastor absolutely does not want the burden and pressure of a mortgage payment affecting anything he does. I think if we had an opportunity to buy our location (it is not for sale) and the price was right he might do it but then again he might not.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

That's smart...

I think a congregation should have multiple services until its an easy move financially.

The idea of "build it and they will come" puts undue financial stress on the saints, which is unbiblical.

Building an auditorium is not our problem. We should just bring folks into the Kingdom and let folks give as they wish. The more folks that are saved, the more they will receive for their projects.

It just stands to reason.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Financial pressure on church boards should be avoided at all costs.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Yup. We are expanding at our current location which is a 114 year old warehouse. There is room to build out a 1500 seat sanctuary while still retaining our current space. That is a project that will probably be done at the end of this year or beginning of next and in the meantime we are adding a fourth weekend service beginning March 21.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Amen, there is no hurry about the building...only getting souls saved. The building will naturally be available financially when there are folks joining your congregation.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Honestly not having your own building is a strange concept to me? I guess I am way old.:highfive

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

I understand as I would rather own also. Our landlord is a very successful businessman in town who owns a lot of commercial real estate. He is a christian and has worked with us very well.

The space itself is very cool. It is brick and has high ceilings so perfect for the sanctuary. When we leased it the only finished out space was the part where the auditorium is at. We were able to design and build out the Sunday School and nursery area as we liked. The same when we leased additional space for offices, meeting rooms ,etc. This will also be the case as we take even more space to build out the new auditorium.

I would not normally have considered our location a good one for a church. The positive is that it is very close to downtown and a major retail area of our town. The negative is that it is in a commercial district. Most people will never pass by it and see it while traveling about our town. Yet this hasn't hindered our growth.

Before our first Sunday there we were averaging around 450 in attendance and the first Sunday there we had a little over 700 and have never looked back. In the first couple of months of this year I think we have hit over 1400 some Sundays. Pretty phenomenal given our location. We also have done it without any gimmicks. No ipad giveaways on Easter Sundays, no Sunday School contests to see who can invite the most, etc.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

I was a church treasurer for many years. Most of the church budget went to labor and for building expenses. If a building is a tool sued for ministry, then it is useful. We use our building nearly every day for one service or another.

But they consume large portions of the budget.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

We do not share our facility with anybody so it is just like owning the building in most ways. We have complete and exclusive use of it 7 days a week 24 hours a day. Activities are going on at the facility pretty much 7 days a week.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Pastor does not want to have the pressure of a large church note affecting any of the decision making or actions of the church and I understand that. Right now we are debt free and don't owe anybody anything for anything. All of the chairs, equipment, etc are paid for. This gives us a lot of freedom in using our money for outreach, missions, etc.

Right now we have been saving money each month to build out the new auditorium by the end of the year. That will require a lot of additional seating, new sound system, new platform, etc not to mention central heat & AC, lighting, additional parking, and on and on. All of that will be paid for as we go so we should still be debt free when we more than double our square footage

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Good stewardship!!!:thumbsup

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Amen! I compare it to building a whole new highway when you could just add a lane (service) or two. Your still going the same direction, but you just doubled your capacity, while minimizing the expenses.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Adding all those services must be for a young man the two on Sunday wears this preacher out.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Was there for a funeral on Friday 3-13-15 I think there was about 2000 at the old church and parking was hard to come by.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

No, you're just way too non-biblical. No one had a building in the early church.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

How do you know they didn't? I am just curious. At what point did Christians start having buildings?

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question
 

Synagogues began during the exile. When the Jews returned to Israel, they brought the synagogue idea with them.

Since Christianity has Jewish roots, it is not shocking to see that Christianity has worship buildings not unlike synagogues.

Re: One More CLC Stockton Question