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chosenbyone 06-25-2007 01:32 AM

Are Backsliders Required to be Re-baptized?
 
Hello, AFF -

I've been out of pocket during the last few weeks and I've had this question daily on my mind. Now, I learned all the scriptures that support our doctrine; however, I've had trouble discounting the need of being baptized again for the remission of sins after walking away from God and being involved with horrible sin.

I backslid and came back to our merciful Savior, but I've been troubled in my spirit about the need to wash all those sins under the blood through the act of baptism. Has anyone heard of this being practice in our churches?

Any scripturally based answers that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

chosenbyone

berkeley 06-25-2007 01:36 AM

I do not have any scripture to offer for this answer. :)

If baptism is for the remission of sins, then NO. Baptism is not necessary the second time around. Sins can be remitted only once. Or that is what they will tell you. *shrugs*

If baptism is because of the remission of sins, yes, you CAN be baptized again. It is a public confession that you have placed your faith in Christ.

Some believe you can be baptized again to clear your conscience.
Reference:
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

berkeley 06-25-2007 01:38 AM

I have no real answer.

chosenbyone 06-25-2007 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkeley (Post 166756)
I do not have any scripture to offer for this answer. :)

If baptism is for the remission of sins, then NO. Baptism is not necessary the second time around. Sins can be remitted only once. Or that is what they will tell you. *shrugs*

If baptism is because of the remission of sins, yes, you CAN be baptized again. It is a public confession that you have placed your faith in Christ.

Some believe you can be baptized again to clear your conscience.
Reference:
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Thanks for the quick response, Berk. I've understood that there are at least two different camps which you've listed above. I have been told by more than one pastor that baptism was for the remission of our sins.

If it was just for public confession of a person's faith then in my opinion would be there wouldn't be a need to be baptized again. The reason for this belief was I should already be a walking public confession everyday with my words, deeds and most importantly His grace.

Still on the fence with this dilemma...I've spent time today wrapping up some personal legal matters, estate, so that no one would have to deal with such matters after I pass away (if that is God's will).

This is an urgent personel matter for me...anymore insight friends?

berkeley 06-25-2007 01:51 AM

Several years ago I wanted to be re-baptized. I was not. For me it was an issue of the conscience. I would have "felt" better about starting over.
If it is for conscience sake, I would tell you to go ahead with it. If it will give you more peace, it is a good thing. :)

I have been wondering where you have been.

chosenbyone 06-25-2007 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkeley (Post 166759)
Several years ago I wanted to be re-baptized. I was not. For me it was an issue of the conscience. I would have "felt" better about starting over.
If it is for conscience sake, I would tell you to go ahead with it. If it will give you more peace, it is a good thing. :)

I have been wondering where you have been.

Issue of conscience? If it would have made you feel better...why didn't you pursue what your gut was telling you? Oh, well, who am I to say?

It has never been something that has robbed me of any peace; however, it has been a subject that I just can't seem to get out of my head.

If baptism was an act of obedience to God's word and I felt that God wanted me to be baptized again, who would baptize me? As far a I can gather, my church doesn't do any re-baptizing for backsliders. I just would like to have this matter resolved once and for all...

berkeley 06-25-2007 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosenbyone (Post 166760)
Issue of conscience? If it would have made you feel better...why didn't you pursue what your gut was telling you? Oh, well, who am I to say?

It has never been something that has robbed me of any peace; however, it has been a subject that I just can't seem to get out of my head.

If baptism was an act of obedience to God's word and I felt that God wanted me to be baptized again, who would baptize me? As far a I can gather, my church doesn't do any re-baptizing for backsliders. I just would like to have this matter resolved once and for all...

I don't understand why God would want you to be re-baptized. I do understand why a person would want to be re-baptized. If you feel that He wants you to be re-baptized, do it. If I was nearby I'd re-baptize you in the bathtub.

chosenbyone 06-25-2007 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkeley (Post 166762)
I don't understand why God would want you to be re-baptized. I do understand why a person would want to be re-baptized. If you feel that He wants you to be re-baptized, do it. If I was nearby I'd re-baptize you in the bathtub.


Perhaps, at this stage of my life, I just wanted to put these questions to rest. Thanks for the offer, Berk....you're a good guy.

Rico 06-25-2007 02:15 AM

Chosen, if you want to get rebaptized then take it to your pastor and discuss it with him. Tell him how you feel and hopefully he will understand and rebaptize you. I've heard of people doing this.

berkeley 06-25-2007 02:15 AM

Far from good... striving unto perfection...

berkeley 06-25-2007 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico (Post 166765)
Chosen, if you want to get rebaptized then take it to your pastor and discuss it with him. Tell him how you feel and hopefully he will understand and rebaptize you. I've heard of people doing this.

How many times were you re-baptized?


J/K

Rico 06-25-2007 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkeley (Post 166767)
How many times were you re-baptized?


J/K

Not funny. I got baptized in the titles when I was 13 and again in Jesus name when I was 26.

chosenbyone 06-25-2007 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico (Post 166765)
Chosen, if you want to get rebaptized then take it to your pastor and discuss it with him. Tell him how you feel and hopefully he will understand and rebaptize you. I've heard of people doing this.

Rico,

I haven't been able to attend church in several weeks, but I did email my pastor and I've been waiting for a reply. I have heard from other members that the leadership in general doesn't support re-baptizing.

Regardless, of whatever life throws our way...God is still good.

chosenbyone.

Rhoni 06-25-2007 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosenbyone (Post 166755)
Hello, AFF -

I've been out of pocket during the last few weeks and I've had this question daily on my mind. Now, I learned all the scriptures that support our doctrine; however, I've had trouble discounting the need of being baptized again for the remission of sins after walking away from God and being involved with horrible sin.

I backslid and came back to our merciful Savior, but I've been troubled in my spirit about the need to wash all those sins under the blood through the act of baptism. Has anyone heard of this being practice in our churches?

Any scripturally based answers that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

chosenbyone

Dear Chosen,

There is no scripture for or against re-baptism, but I will tell you of many experiences that I have had, especially within the scope of my ministry.

Many of us were raised in the church and just took it as the right thing to do when we got baptized from 5-12 years of age. Many of us have chosen, as adults, to be re-baptized full well understanding our sin nature and knowing that God is the only one who can wash us white as snow.

As for you; no person can make that decision for you. The first time you asked for forgiveness - God was there. He knows our frame and what we are made of. As far as God is concerned...your sins are gone, but if being re-baptized today knowing and understanding what a sacrifice Jesus made when he took all of our sins on to himself...then I'd say...go for it.

God won't feel any different about you but you may feel different about yourself. If you choose this route...let me know, and I will come.

Love & Blessings, Rhoni

KwaiQ 06-25-2007 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosenbyone (Post 166755)
Hello, AFF -

I've been out of pocket during the last few weeks and I've had this question daily on my mind. Now, I learned all the scriptures that support our doctrine; however, I've had trouble discounting the need of being baptized again for the remission of sins after walking away from God and being involved with horrible sin.

I backslid and came back to our merciful Savior, but I've been troubled in my spirit about the need to wash all those sins under the blood through the act of baptism. Has anyone heard of this being practice in our churches?

Any scripturally based answers that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

chosenbyone

If baptism was done properly in Jesus name, then you only need to be baptized once. Baptism symbolizes our burial (Romans 6:3-5). You are only buried once if the burial was done properly. A backslider only needs to truly repent (turn around) and follow after God. Hebrews 12:14

Barb 06-25-2007 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KwaiQ (Post 166814)
If baptism was done properly in Jesus name, then you only need to be baptized once. Baptism symbolizes our burial (Romans 6:3-5). You are only buried once if the burial was done properly. A backslider only needs to truly repent (turn around) and follow after God. Hebrews 12:14

This is interesting because I was taught from as far back as I can remember that a backslider needed to speak in tongues again (pray through). If they didn't do that, they were not restored.

Steve Epley 06-25-2007 08:19 AM

NOPE.

Sherri 06-25-2007 08:19 AM

We often rebaptize people who have been away from the Lord. I think it is just signifying a fresh start and it's a public declaration of such. I don't think they "have" to be baptized again, according to Scripture, but it sure doesn't hurt them! The Bible does talk somewhere about doing your first works over.:ernie

Barb 06-25-2007 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 166838)
NOPE.

Elder E, are you answering the rebaptized question or what I just wrote?!

KwaiQ 06-25-2007 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb (Post 166834)
This is interesting because I was taught from as far back as I can remember that a backslider needed to speak in tongues again (pray through). If they didn't do that, they were not restored.

I agree with Brother Epley. You do not have to speak in tongues to 'prove' your living right. God knows the heart and wether your truly repentent or not. Speaking in tongues is an initial sign to the unbeliever that he has recieved the Holy Ghost. The gift of tongues and interpretation is for the edifying of the church.

Barb 06-25-2007 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KwaiQ (Post 166846)
I agree with Brother Epley. You do not have to speak in tongues to 'prove' your living right. God knows the heart and wether your truly repentent or not. Speaking in tongues is an initial sign to the unbeliever that he has recieved the Holy Ghost. The gift of tongues and interpretation is for the edifying of the church.

I'm not sayiong I agree with that...not now anyway, but it was what was taught and is still believed by many.

KwaiQ 06-25-2007 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb (Post 166851)
but it was what was taught and is still believed by many.

I have no doubt it is taught by many.

ManOfWord 06-25-2007 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosenbyone (Post 166755)
Hello, AFF -

I've been out of pocket during the last few weeks and I've had this question daily on my mind. Now, I learned all the scriptures that support our doctrine; however, I've had trouble discounting the need of being baptized again for the remission of sins after walking away from God and being involved with horrible sin.

I backslid and came back to our merciful Savior, but I've been troubled in my spirit about the need to wash all those sins under the blood through the act of baptism. Has anyone heard of this being practice in our churches?

Any scripturally based answers that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

chosenbyone


As a pastor, and being part of the UPC for 20yrs, (I have been out of the UPC for over 10yrs) I used to hold strongly to the "baptism ONLY once" idea. It was more of a sectarian stance that I held than anything else. However, having been a Sr. pastor for almost 25 yrs, I have dealt with many different kinds of situations in people's lives.

I have -re-baptized many folks. I don't preach it as a doctrine, but to the folks I have re-baptized, it has really meant something to them. For me, that is what is more important than anything.

There is no scripture to support withholding re-baptism. However, the Jewish practice of Mikveh, was a ritual cleansing that was performed many times throughout the life of the observant Jew.

If it means that much to you, and your pastor won't do it, then I would find someone who would. Remember, this is between you and the Lord. I don't counsel folks to go against their pastor, but this is not something that is contrary to scripture.

Steve Epley 06-25-2007 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barb (Post 166841)
Elder E, are you answering the rebaptized question or what I just wrote?!

Yes. You can only be born ONCE. I have on very rare occasions where someone as a child may have been baptized and was out in the world for years and did not feel comfortable I did it for conscience sake. As far as speaking in tongues again I think if folks get renewed it just happens is it a must? I don't know any passage that teaches that. But a person that has much of a prayer life from time to time will speak in tongues. I never HAVE to eat a steak again but you know what I like them so I have them more than I should.

Brother Price 06-25-2007 08:45 AM

I was rebaptized a while back. It did not help. The problem was not even with conscience, but with the condition of the mind. If a backslider somes back, and repents, they turn their mind back to where it should be. Look at Revelation, at the words of our Lord to the various churches. He told them to repent and turn. He did not say they needed to be rebaptized, though the reference to returning back to your first works can be interpreted as such by some.

Personally, rebaptism is for conscience sake. The blood, once applied, is there. We must repent and turn back. He died once for our sins, and His blood cleanses us from sin. If we confess our sins, church, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

For conscience sake, I will not go against. Mandating such is unscripturally based.

Sister Alvear 06-25-2007 09:21 AM

If someone feels to then maybe so...but in general I would say no. But I have seen my pastor rebaptize people IF they felt to be. I think if for some reason a person is not satisfied maybe they should do so...Many years ao when my mother came to the Lord she was baptized in a certain church and when she came on into more truth she felt to rebaptize. She felt that the preacher that baptized her was wrong...so there are many reasons to consider and blessed be the wise pastor that guides...

Monkeyman 06-25-2007 09:42 AM

"Can a man enter his mother's womb and be born" Again, again, again, and again....its foolish. God's grace and mercy is endless, it is sufficient to cover ALL of my sins. Just return to the cross in prayer, that is enough.

Falla39 06-25-2007 11:02 AM

Are Backsliders Required to be Re-baptized?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 166859)
Yes. You can only be born ONCE. I have on very rare occasions where someone as a child may have been baptized and was out in the world for years and did not feel comfortable I did it for conscience sake. As far as speaking in tongues again I think if folks get renewed it just happens is it a must? I don't know any passage that teaches that. But a person that has much of a prayer life from time to time will speak in tongues. I never HAVE to eat a steak again but you know what I like them so I have them more than I should.

Yes, we can only be born once but we can be re-vived or re-newed

many times! I would like to renew our marriage vows at our 50th anniv.

In a few days we will have our 48th. I married my husband as a young

person and I don't remember what all the vows were. I probably didn't

care. All I wanted to do was to spend my life with him. Basically I was

a "child". NOW I know as an adult that I still want to spend the reminder

of my life with him. If we renew our vows, I will find out what I am vowing

and do my very best to do them.

Then there is this question of being re-baptized. My grandmother and

her son, my dad, frowned somewhat upon being re-baptized as they

saw no scripture for doing so. However, Grandma was an adult and her

son, my dad was a young fourteen yr. old boy when they heard the

apostolic truth from God's Word. They wore out several Bibles the next

few years after they believed, were baptized in Jesus Name, and received

the Holy Ghost, speaking with tongues. They were very devout in their

continual searching of the scriptures. I seriously doubt they ever thought

of re-baptism due to their own devouted life to God and His Word.

I was a young girl when I was baptized and didn't receive the Holy Ghost

until I was eighteen. My two younger siblings were getting baptized and

I am sure I felt a measure of wanting to also since, and while they were being

baptized. In later years I have felt that because I was a "child" when I

was baptized, I would be willing to let Jesus know that even though I

"put Him Christ" as a child, I would love for Him know that as a mature

adult, I would be willing to take the name of JESUS with me again. Some

might not want to marry the same man or take a man's name again but

I can only speak for myself. Instead of re-marrying or re-baptism, it would

simply be, being RE-NEWED in both cases!! If we ask Him to, He will lead us

in this question and will settle it in our minds. We sometimes need to be

re-newed in the spirit of our minds.

Blessings,

Falla39

Michlow 06-25-2007 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chosenbyone (Post 166755)
Hello, AFF -

I've been out of pocket during the last few weeks and I've had this question daily on my mind. Now, I learned all the scriptures that support our doctrine; however, I've had trouble discounting the need of being baptized again for the remission of sins after walking away from God and being involved with horrible sin.

I backslid and came back to our merciful Savior, but I've been troubled in my spirit about the need to wash all those sins under the blood through the act of baptism. Has anyone heard of this being practice in our churches?

Any scripturally based answers that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

chosenbyone

I don't have any biblical answers for you. Personally I don't THINK that its necessary. But I personally chose to be baptized a second time.

I orginally came to an Apostolic church at the age of 18, attended maybe 3 services and decided to be baptized. I maybe attended 1 more service after I was baptized, and then did not attend church at all. I never received the Holy Ghost, and did not give my life to God.

6 Years later I started attending again, and gave my life to God. I eventually received the Holy Ghost. For almost 5 years, I struggled with feeling that I wanted to be baptized again. But the various Pastors I discussed it with, always said that it was not required.

Eventually I just decided that I WANTED to do it again, regardless of it not being necessary. I felt much better once I did. There had always been this tiny uncomfortable feeling in the back of my mind.

Mrpapajo 06-25-2007 11:45 AM

Was the prodigal son reborn when he returned home? No

He was just a person that realized he had made a mistake. He repented of that mistake and the father put the ring and robe on him that the son had squandered. There is no need to be re-baptised. One is only getting wet.
When one is born again they are a son no matter what they do.
If they live a life separated from God they are still a son, but a son that is lost. You can only receive the Holy Ghost one time. There is no such thing as praying through as taught in the UPCI.

Esther 06-25-2007 12:00 PM

Do what will give you peace.

It is not necessary. But as MOW said there is no Bible for, nor against being bapized again.

chosenbyone 06-25-2007 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 166775)
Dear Chosen,

There is no scripture for or against re-baptism, but I will tell you of many experiences that I have had, especially within the scope of my ministry.

Many of us were raised in the church and just took it as the right thing to do when we got baptized from 5-12 years of age. Many of us have chosen, as adults, to be re-baptized full well understanding our sin nature and knowing that God is the only one who can wash us white as snow.

As for you; no person can make that decision for you. The first time you asked for forgiveness - God was there. He knows our frame and what we are made of. As far as God is concerned...your sins are gone, but if being re-baptized today knowing and understanding what a sacrifice Jesus made when he took all of our sins on to himself...then I'd say...go for it.

God won't feel any different about you but you may feel different about yourself. If you choose this route...let me know, and I will come.

Love & Blessings, Rhoni

Thank you, Rhoni and everyone. I must admit I'm even more unsure of this feeling that I can't shake... maybe it is residual guilt of my past rebellion and the consequences of my sin.

Many of you have shared similar thoughts and beliefs that I have held regarding homosexuality, which was what the Bible referred to as an abomination. I not only left the anointing of God, but was involved in unspeakable behavior against the very nature of Jesus.

I was raised and attended both UPC and Church of God (Cleveland), but mostly the COG. I had friends that lived in Houston and they invited me to hear Richard Heard speak at Christian Tabernacle back in 1981. I had already received the Holy Ghost at age 11, but even at that young age I longed for something that I wasn't seeing or feeling in the COG. That night, I knelt at the alter where a brother read Acts 2:38 and explained to me the plan of salvation. I obeyed and was baptized in Jesus Name at the age of 15.

My grandfather found out about my baptism and I was banned from being around "Jesus Only" people until his passing in 1989. At that time, I was a seaman in the Navy and I found New Life Tabernacle in Napa, CA. That was where I received the revelation of the Oneness of our God and all of His wonderfulness.

Only once did I question the need to be baptized after I received the revelation and Bro. Paul Price assured me that I was born again. After the shame I brought to Christ, my family, friends and myself, I found an alter of forgiveness and the love of our Father.

Now, I am dying. Unless, a miracle happens this year, I will go and receive my reward. I know that Jesus loves me as well as I love him with all my heart, but I even dream that I must be buried again in His name. Believe me, I've written this urge up as everything from some deep seeded guilt to medications to the actual need of those horrible sins to be once and for all remitted.

I now have been assigned a caretaker after my hospital stay and he has seen the anguish that this has caused in my life and he doesn't even know the truth...yet...

As of tonight, I still haven't heard from my pastor. If by chance that he would not baptize me is there any ministers in the Houston area that would be willing to baptize me even if you don't feel that it would be necessary? If anything else, the peace of mind that obeying what I feel in my soul would be worth everything I own.

I couldn't find where there would be a need in the scripture either for re-baptism though I have spent countless hours the last month researching. One scripture that brought more questions to me was when I read Hebrews Ch 10:26..."For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins".

Too may questions and not enough time. If there would be no more sacrifice for sins for someone who knew truth and walked away from God then why did God lead me back to Him?

Sherri 06-25-2007 10:37 PM

Chosen--
You are a true example of the grace of God. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sure there are ministers in the Houston area who would baptize you, if that's what you desire. Jabo Green's staff would, I think. Or Richard Heard's staff. Maybe you don't want someone outside of UPC though; if so, I don't know the ones in UPC anymore. I'll be praying for you!

ManOfWord 06-25-2007 10:41 PM

Chosen, if you can't find anyone, I would be happy to fly there and re-baptize you at my expense! Seriously!!

berkeley 06-25-2007 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord (Post 167822)
Chosen, if you can't find anyone, I would be happy to fly there and re-baptize you at my expense! Seriously!!

Thank you. :)

Sherri 06-25-2007 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord (Post 167822)
Chosen, if you can't find anyone, I would be happy to fly there and re-baptize you at my expense! Seriously!!

What an awesome gesture! God bless your heart.

chosenbyone 06-25-2007 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri (Post 167816)
Chosen--
You are a true example of the grace of God. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sure there are ministers in the Houston area who would baptize you, if that's what you desire. Jabo Green's staff would, I think. Or Richard Heard's staff. Maybe you don't want someone outside of UPC though; it so, I don't know the ones in UPC anymore. I'll be praying for you!

Thank you, Sheri for your kind words of hope and encouragement. I've missed being able to be here on AFF and my caretaker has proven to be tough on me to get rest. Though he means well, people that I've met here have brought so much to my life this year.

I will pray if Bro. Green or Bro. Heard would be where I should go. I would like for my pastor to be the one to baptize me, but at this point if there were another Apostolic minister that would do this for me, I would humbly accept.

I'm going to have to log off in a minute, but I will look forward to reading your replies in the morning.

Sam 06-25-2007 10:53 PM

Early in my Christian life, I received teaching on a couple verses in the epistle of 1 John which apply to a Christian who sins. "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Those are verses 8 and 9 in the first chapter of that epistle. I had a problem because I didn't "feel" forgiven when I confessed any failure and/or sin. I was told that we walk by faith and not by feeling. God plainly promised in these verses that if we confess (admit) our sins then He would forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This promise is based on God's faithfulness. If we believe what He said, then once we admit our failure to Him, He not only forgives but He also cleanses us from it.

The Swordsman 06-25-2007 10:55 PM

Ephesians 4:5

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Sherri 06-25-2007 10:57 PM

I agree that it isn't necessary for salvation, but if the guy is dying and feels like this is something God has wanted for him, then by all means, he needs to do it. I can tell you, if I were in his position, I would move heaven and earth to get to a place where they would baptize me if I felt it as strongly as he obviously does.


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