Are you qualified to be in the Kingdom of God?
 

According to Romans 14:17 the Kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.

We almost universally accept that the unrighteous are not qualified to be in the Kingdom of God. What is your position on those who are not at peace regardless of their circumstance or those who are short on joy? Are they any more qualified for citizenship in the Kingdom of God than the unrighteous?

I am sure this will be on page two in record time. It is not about standards but Godliness!

Hmmmm, so in your scenario, even if someone has fulfilled all of the salvation requirements, if they do not have joy and peace in their life then they would not be in the Kingdom of God, which I assume means Heaven?

No they are not more qualified. :)

People who disregard the limited advance of others in the Kingdom, and ignore others' weaknesss and flaunt their own liberties are violating the essence of the Kingdom.

He was not speaking of not being IN the kingdom, but whether or not someone is more qualified to be in it, if they are, than others in it, if they are.

I think this conversation is way over my head. lol.

As I see it, things like this are the ideals to strive for. Nobody I know of is 100% at peace all the time. Nobody lives in joy 24x7. Nobody is perfect (righteous) all day every day. Everyone needs their feet washed occasionally (John 13:8-10). Also, it's not so much qualifications to be in the Kingdon, but results of arriving there, like fruits of the Spirit. (Over time!)

But the Kingdom is the ideal. Here on Earth, we live in the kingdom (as part of God's family) but imperfectly. Only in Heaven will we be perfected.

The context of Romans 14 is regarding eating meat (and by extension, doing any number of things that would offend weaker brothers, such as wearing jewelry or a beard, perhaps?). Paul is stressing that these things are not what the Kingdom is all about, that's all. The important things are righteousness (in things that matter, such as kindness and honesty), peace and joy. Not the rules, the do's and don'ts.

Rom 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

I disagree strongly. If we walk after the Spirit down here now, we will not fulfil lusts of the flesh. And it is possible to walk after the Spirit. :D

Are you?

I have used a green apple and a red apple to illustrate that both are perfect in the stage of development they are at. The same can be said of Christians. We are given a perfect standing with God in Jesus Christ when we are born into the family of God. We are all at different stages in our spiritual development. The reason we are given Christ's garment of righteousness to wear is that ours will never be adequate no matter how long we live for God. It is my observation that most saints have seasons in life when they are more fruitful. The righteous, peace, and joy that characterizes the Christian and reflects the kingdom of God has been imparted to us. However, there are times and circumstances that tend to suppress the manifestation of these, but it's only temporary.

One may not completely happy in their present circumstances ,and still be peaceable and have joy in The Lord.
Let's say one is cast into prison for being a Christian ,certainly one won't really like being there ,but one could still have peace and joy knowing that they are abiding in Christ.

If you have been washed in the blood of lamb ,you wouldn't be considered a filthy rag ,now would you ?

That is the bottom line, anyway. We cannot qualify in our own merits. But I think Bro Jones was trying to deal with how some in the kingdom are pinpointed while others who are acting wrong in other ways are not.

Ron,

I am sorry that you cannot accept anything a more conservative individual than you says at face value and that you feel the need to be mildly antagonistic. There is no condemnation intended in my post. Rather I am asking a question that I desire answers to.

I honestly am not sure... I find that we too often live lives accepting of conditions that are determined by life rather than allowing the Holy Ghost to fully work in our lives. Therefore, we react in the flesh rather than in the Spirit. And the condition rather than the Holy Ghost determines our level of peace and our joy.

I sincerely want to be a partaker of the fullness of kingdom and walk in the peace and joy that defines the kingdom.

I love you, buddy!

If one is abiding in the New Covenant ,certainly they are in The Kingdom Of God now.

Not you! ;)

I want to know if Phil is qualified, since he's asking if the rest of us are.



Sheesh... I know already you're not qualified! lol

Perhaps qualified was not the proper word... I am not sure what the proper word would be. Without question, HE is the qualifier but are we walking in His provision if we allow the chaos of life to rob us of peace or if we allow the sorrow of circumstance to steal our joy?

As Bro. Blume stated, we are quick to "disqualify" the unrighteous but we don't have the expectation of peace and joy that we do of righteousness. Why is that?

Phil... you are not the great discerner of thoughts, intents, and motives that you believe yourself to be, bro.

You missed it... but that's ok.

Ron,

I am glad for that.

That said, discernment is not required if you just take the time to go back and look at your typical response to those more conservative than you are.

I do love you buddy and I am glad I "missed it" on this one. :)

Ok... you win. You'e right.

I'm wrong.


I concede.



I give up.



I'm a horribly typical bitter nasty backslidden hell bound liberal... I admit it.




Thanks...




Missed it again, Phil...

Ron,

I never said nor do I think any of the things you said. You certainly know that.

I am not blind... I read quite well and my comprehension, not to be confused with discernment, is quite good. What you write cannot be comprehended any other way than mildly antagonistic at best. If that is not your intent you need to write more clearly or perhaps less clearly because it is clear that you try to nicely go after every avowed conservative on this board.

I am not trying to win anything so you need not concede anything to me.

I still love you! :)

The issue should not even regard qualification. Only the blood qualifies any of us. The issue should rather regard whether one is acting in a manner conducive to the nature of the Kingdom of God in which we exist.

Did you miss my other posts, Dan?

I think I made it quite clear that the only qualifier is HIM but I am not sure I am walking in the qualification that he has provided me.

Thanks for asking again! :)

I know Mike ... but I like seeing Phil squirm ....

Hey Phil ... got any more turtlewax??? .... I just finished washing my sepulcher.

The Word of God is also clear that the Kingdom of God is not in word but in POWER. Are we truly living in the Kingdom of God if we are not walking in the fullness of the power defined in scripture to represent the Kingdom of God?

I am concerned that we have a faulty understanding of a couple of things, those being (1) the sovereignty of God and (2) the Kingdom He established in the hearts of men!

Maybe my concerns are invalid. If so, please let me know why they are invalid.

No squirming here and i have found that McGuire's works much better than Turtle Wax! :)

There is a concern. But it's the way you phrased it -- "qualified". Only Christ's works qualify us. But I thought you were actually trying to say whether or not our activity and behaviour is conducive to being in the kingdom.

That is why I made the post indicating that qualify(ied) was a poor choice of words as He is the only qualifier. Your thoughts were correct. I feel that our behavior and our actions are often an insult to the Lord Jesus himself when he has brought is into the Kingdom by His righteous blood and has given us the Power of His Spirit to walk in righteousness, peace and joy and we walk otherwise!

Congratulations. I bet Paul would envy you (Romans 7:19).

Ah, if you only knew how Paul was relating past mistakes in chapter 7 and how he learned to be delivered from the body of death through Jesus, by the work of God, Whom he thanked for deliverance. He gave the remedy to chapter 7 in the last three verses, which remedy is what he elaborated upon in chapter 6. Cannot God create in us a new clean heart?

Chapter 7 relates to us his mistake in walking after the flesh to serve God, which he identified through the ordeal. His info in 6:13 shows what he failed to do in times past -- walk after the Spirit by calling upon God's strength to use his members as instruments of righteousness rather than exert strenuous effort to make his flesh serve God in his own power.

Speaking of Kingdoms, has anyone done a study on the different Kingdoms? I did a study several years back and found out there is more than one Kingdom in the Kingdom. The only two I can remember off the top of my head are the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. Maybe this is something I should study out again.

I honestly think those two "kingdoms" Are actually one and the same, and are synonymous terms that are interchangeable.

Proof:

Mat 19:23-24 KJV Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. (24) And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

WATCH THIS COMPARISON:

Mat 11:11-12 KJV Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (12) And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Luk 7:28 KJV For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

Maybe. There is one scripture that comes to mind where Jesus specifically says the Kingdom of God is within you. That suggests to me that there is more than one Kingdom. The Kingdom of Heaven is a place we actually go to and will be able to see. The Kingdom of God can not be seen, according to what I am remembering. I need to study it out again because I am relying completely on memory right now and you know how that goes as ya get older! LOL!

I heard that idea before, but I cannot agree. When the two terms are used in speaking of the same thing as in the examples I provided, they are simply different titles for the one kingdom. Matthew usually uses one instead of the other. But the same parables in varying gospels use the two terms interchangeably when you compare each gospel version of the parable with the other's.

You're seeing things...

Good insight as always... Now back to the questing, yes ! Why because God said so~

Well, I am working on another topic for my new thread, Rico's Ramblings, in the cafe-blog section of AFF, but I am hoping to make "The Kingdoms" a topic for that thread eventually. Maybe I will do it next week and we can discuss it then.