Selective Immortality...
 

Has anyone heard of this teaching?!

As I understand it, the idea of this is that the soul will be in torment for only as long as they person sinned...if the ole boy was a sinner for 65 years, at the end of that span of time, the soul would discentigrate...no fooling here.

Without any specifics, I can only say that there is a place where this is being taught.

Those who know me well know I do not jest about such matters...has anyone come across this teaching before?!

Never heard of it before. Then again, I had never heard of magical hair until I started participating in internet forums.

Well, it's a real deal that has just cropped up, and I am wanting to know if this is an isolated thing.

Do you, by chance, know any of the scriptures they are basing this doctrine on?

Hmmm I would like to know what group this is. Are they Oneness?

Yes, only one that I am aware of...


Rev 21:8

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
KJV

They claim the word part here means time...hell is for an appointed time in other words.

Strange...

Yes...

Ok so I believe in the death of the wicked in Hell myself. Thats why I am asking who and where. If you are not comfortable putting it here send me a pm. thanks, michael

Thank you, no...

But tell me, you believe this?! Is it Universalist in origin?!

They are Noneness. :)

Meaning what?

I dont necessarily believe one will suffer in the lake however many years they lived. Some may suffer a very long time. However long it is according to Yeshua their Lake of Fire experience will end in their death.

28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt. 10:28

So this is NOT Universalism but annihilation. It is taught in both Testaments.


4: Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4

23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

I taught the "immortal soul" doctrine myself for 16 years. A friend shared the truth with me and I began to study it. Very shortly I saw the error of what I had believed.

I am aware of two Apostolic Churches that teach this. Also several Apostolic Teachers. I am sure there must be more.

When I met Evangelist Benincasa years ago he told me that he and other Churches he knew held this.

Just what I said.

I have not heard this doctrine called "selective immortality before". At least what I and others believe is sometimes called "conditional immortality".

The only thing I have heard similiar to this, is that you will burn for the sins against your body, because it is the temple of God.

Where they got that teaching, I'm not sure.

BTW...sins of the body they were referring to was adultry, etc.

Respectfully Elder, this particular church believes in the same One God you and I do, baptize in the Name and receiving the Holy Ghost, AND are UPCI in affiliation. To say they are "noneness," why I disagree with the other they teach, seems a bit unfair.

I know what you mean here, but...anyway...

Bro. Beni, do you know anything about this teaching that we might share with these folk?!

Is this speaking of natural death, as in dying, or a spiritual death, as in cut off from the presence of God?!

Look at what Yeshua said:

28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matt. 10:28

The context is what happens to the SOUL and the body in Hell.

Once this is understood the rest will follow. And yes I will be interested in what Bro. Beni says about this.

What is the deal about saying what Church you are talking about? Are they ashamed of what they believe? Since you brought up the topic it seems reasonable you should name them. I doubt anyone here would try to contact them except myself.

There was a UPCI pastor in LA, now deceased, that was very strong on the annihilation of the wicked. Bro. Tenney, while not of the same view, didn't trouble him about it. Bro. Tenney also would tell you not to get into a debate with him about it because he would "tie your tail in a knot". I believe the brother's name was Magahee or something similar. He may have sons in the UPC that still teach this doctrine.

I would disagree! :)

There's no reason at all why the church needs to be named. I believe information and input is being sought re this teaching.

Personally, I've never heard it before.

Well since I believe something similar I would like to find out EXACTLY what they are saying. So far we have been given very little information. I doubt they are basing it all on one scripture.

We need to know more about it to say for sure.

Thank you, Felicity!! Your response is exactly correct...I am seeking info...period.

Michael, no disrespect intended, but I have held off for weeks asking about this for precisely this reason, and I will NOT say more than what has been said re this church, and there is not earthly point in doing so.

I do not know exactly what they are saying, but am merely asking what anyone knows...I have told you all I know about what they teach re this.

Perhaps it is best when one does not know what to say, to say nothing.

Thank you all for your input...I am moving on from this discussion...:)

There is an elderly lady in the Atlantic District, who taught in the Bible College when I was there, and she believed in the annihilation of the wicked. She held a local license with the UPCI for years I believe. She didn't push this teaching, but I recall her briefly stating her position while teaching one day.

There were a few preachers in AD who also believed this doctrine. To be honest I have always found it difficult to believe God would want souls to be in eternal torment. It seems sadistic to me. Yet Mark 9:43 speaks of those who will go to hell, "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Elder, I understand your heartbeat here, but we do realize that God does not want a soul to be in torment...that is our choice to make and the result of our choice is hell.

And that is a good Scripture you cited re this...thank you...

Perhaps "selective immortality" is a good name for what I believe. It indicates that Yeshua will only grant immortality to a select few who overcome.

6: Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: Rom. 2:6-7

It is pretty clear immortality is a gift given to the overcomers only. No one in Hell will have it. Thats why the Lord says he is able to DESTROY the soul just as he does the body. Where? In Hell. Matt. 10:28

why would god punish someone then make them dissapear?

it seems to me if the soul is distroyed, it will happen as soon as a person dies. there is no reason to punish then distroy.

Yeah...what he said...!! ;)

But, nonetheless Barb, whether it's our choice or not, God is the one who chose the punishment and since He is omniscient He would be aware that all these souls were in eternal torment. Hard for me to imagine He would want this even for fallen humanity, when He showed how much He loves them by giving His only begotten Son that they might have eternal life.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, or even all the questions and I sure ask a zillion of them...this is simply a doctrine or belief I have never run across before.

So, having said that folks, please excuse my ignorance in asking this, but is not this theory nothing more than another view of the purgatory teaching of the Catholic system...in hell for a time?!

I know, TB...it is hard for me, too, yet I believe that God has given humanity every opportunity to get it right, don't you?!

And didn't He say that the day would come that He would laugh at our calamity?!

It is clear, and Scripture bears it out, that because judgment hasn't fallen immediately, sinful man thinks they are getting by...I don't know, sir...as I said, I don't have the answers. :nah

Laughing at their calamity happens as a result of what is happening in this life, not the next.

How do you answer "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matt. 10:28)?

Or, "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4)?

Just wondering!

Oops...:sshhh didn't know that...

Answering the second part, I always thought that was a spiritual death...the soul that sins shall have no part in the blessings and favor of the Lord. To be cut off from His presence would be spiritual death, IMO...

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

I thought of those Scriptures as I was posting. It does say that the lake of fire is the second death, but it doesn't say in these verses that they will spend eternity there.

The rich man and Lazarus story seems to teach that the torment in hell was ongoing though. Matter of fact it was the compelling reason for the rich man wanting his brothers warned so they wouldn't end up there.

I don’t know if this is proper or if this is just what I have come up with myself, but when I find scriptures like this, I look to find the way they fit.

For me, when I put these puzzle pieces together, it only fits if Hell is the second death. Not that one goes to hell then is destroyed.

However, I’m just a simple country boy that moved to the big city so; I really don’t qualify as a sophisticate theologian like some around here.

Yes, sir it does...good point and good discussion...