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-   -   Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infilling (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=53447)

votivesoul 08-09-2019 10:35 PM

Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesGlen (Post 1569602)
With all due respect brother, what business is that of yours?



There are tons of people that attend church, sit week in and week out listening to a pastor give his opinions to the church members, they soak it in, write him a check, and go home. Week in, week out. With zero time for dialogue of the scriptures, because layity has nothing to offer clergy when it comes to rightly dividing the word. That’s why visiting preachers holler at the pew people to “Tap yourself on the chest and say my man a God! Or “wherever your man if God is, there where the ark of the covenant is!” Or “It’s not up to you to question the man of God!”
So, instead of studying and debating what’s right on a forum, I guess you just figure they ought to tuck tail and go to a Trinitarian church, or a totally against tongues church, c of c that don’t believe in the miraculous, right? Is that what you do? I’ll tell ya, no it’s not what you do. You keep studying, you discuss on line with other believers, and do your best to try not to call dissension where you attend, while still being a BEREAN. Searching the scriptures to see if what you’re hearing is accurate.

It is my business in the following limited capacities:

1.) I am an Admin on this forum and what transpires here is under my administration.

2.) Tithemeister has openly on this forum made it know what he believes regarding these issues, and has also made it open for all to read that he doesn't attend a church which holds his particular beliefs. The matter, therefore, is fair game.

3.) To help him realize something he and you are not seeing. Several members over the years have admonished him to "sweep around his own porch" before coming to an online forum to set people straight on what they should believe. This is just another incident of that. Why be concerned over EB's discernment regarding the possibility that a new member is a returned twice banned member under a different name when there are people in his own local church who are potentially completely oblivious to the fact he doesn't adhere to not un-substantial different doctrinal views, thus possibly making him a heretic and a false teacher crept in unawares in their eyes (not mine) if they but knew the truth.

Don't you see how that's a bigger issue to worry about than someone on an online forum for whom he cares little and likes less?

votivesoul 08-09-2019 10:39 PM

Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesGlen (Post 1569603)
Peter said God accepted Cornelius because he feared God and did whatís right. God then poured out His Spirit on him (and his house), and they spoke in tongues.

W that in mind...

I have many friends, one specifically is southern baptist, his whole family are all about serving God w all their heart.I have a few others the same.

My question is, if God accepted Cornelius, and the Spirit fell on him(as Peter explains the cross) w tongues present, why does God not accept these others like my friends family that loves Jesus w all their heart as well? And then they speak in tongues like Cornelius. Thereís without question thousands of these people that love God w all their heart, similar to Cornelius. Why are they not accepted? Or are they?

Is this not the true crux of the situation? An emotional attachment to people who are not Spirit-filled whom you want to consider saved?

votivesoul 08-09-2019 10:41 PM

Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesGlen (Post 1569603)
Peter said God accepted Cornelius because he feared God and did whatís right. God then poured out His Spirit on him (and his house), and they spoke in tongues.

W that in mind...

I have many friends, one specifically is southern baptist, his whole family are all about serving God w all their heart.I have a few others the same.

My question is, if God accepted Cornelius, and the Spirit fell on him(as Peter explains the cross) w tongues present, why does God not accept these others like my friends family that loves Jesus w all their heart as well? And then they speak in tongues like Cornelius. Thereís without question thousands of these people that love God w all their heart, similar to Cornelius. Why are they not accepted? Or are they?

As for Cornelius, I addressed this some pages ago. I suggest a reread. But note this for now: Prior to Simon's arrival, was Cornelius serving the Lord Jesus with all his heart? Simon mentioned how Cornelius had heard of the Lord Jesus, but that was it. No mention of already dedicating his life to the Lord, of serving and worshipping him.

So these two situations are not comparable in any real sense.

Esaias 08-09-2019 10:42 PM

Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesGlen (Post 1569687)
I would like more of you thoughts on this:
In light of Corneliusí story...

People hungry for God, love and live for our Saviour, he is not just their Saviour but also their Lord. JUST LIKE CORNELIUS feared God and did whatís right. Yet based on the position of tongues always being THE evidence of Spirit infilling, people donít receive the Spirit.
Why is that?
Without question there is and has been thousands.
Why would God Spirit fill Cornelius even preceding baptism, but yet not fill them neither before or after?
Because of their preacher?

Remember, Peter was simply telling Cornelius about ďthe cross being for everyone that feared God and did whatís right, not just Jews, and then all of a sudden pow, the Holy Ghost was poured out on him.

This kind of troubles me, as is obvious, but I believe it is a legitimate concern, so looking for answers.

Thank you for any and all thoughts as to why him, and not them.

As for why people dont receive the Holy Ghost? There are people sitting on Pentecostal pews who don't have the Holy Ghost, though they've been "seeking" for years. And I'm absolutely convinced there are people as "Pentecostal" as can be who likely never got the real deal. Why?

I don't know. I wish I could just push a button and everyone would get filled with God's Spirit. I suppose there are just as many reasons as there are people.

Plus, if you've got your mind made up you are NOT going to be one of them tongue talking Pentecostals, well...?

A lot of people "believe in Jesus" but salvation depends on a certain particular belief in Jesus - the belief taught by the apostles.

Maybe you could ask your Baptist friends if they've ever been baptised with the Holy Ghost "speaking in tongues". You might be surprised at the response? Quite a few baptists are "Pentecostal at home, baptist at church" types.

Evang.Benincasa 08-10-2019 08:15 AM

Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1569696)
As for why people dont receive the Holy Ghost? There are people sitting on Pentecostal pews who don't have the Holy Ghost, though they've been "seeking" for years. And I'm absolutely convinced there are people as "Pentecostal" as can be who likely never got the real deal. Why?

I don't know. I wish I could just push a button and everyone would get filled with God's Spirit. I suppose there are just as many reasons as there are people.

Plus, if you've got your mind made up you are NOT going to be one of them tongue talking Pentecostals, well...?

A lot of people "believe in Jesus" but salvation depends on a certain particular belief in Jesus - the belief taught by the apostles.

Maybe you could ask your Baptist friends if they've ever been baptised with the Holy Ghost "speaking in tongues". You might be surprised at the response? Quite a few baptists are "Pentecostal at home, baptist at church" types.

Awesome! :thumbsup

coksiw 09-09-2019 02:35 PM

Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1569135)
Interesting discussion going on here.

Regarding this point:



Let's see there:

Notice that the goal of Paul is about edification:

[1Co 14 NKJV] 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies [is] greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Then, here, the spiritual gifts was again the topic, which goes in line with the church edification topic:

12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual [gifts], [let it be] for the edification of the church [that] you seek to excel.

See how he keeps talking about when directing words to the church:

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. ... 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. ...

So the whole topic is that, if you speak to the church in tongues, do it in a way that you got interpretation. Few verses later it says:

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, [let there be] two or at the most three, [each] in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.


So the context is public speaking to the assembly (probably less than 60 people).

Pretty much trying to set order and let public demonstration to the church for edification.

I know many are trying to set some facts about speaking in tongues based on the first verses in that chapter of Cor, but you have to see them in the rhetorical context in which this whole passages was written to begin with and its goal. He starts by saying that tongues is for internal edification, but then he speaks about it like it if it is also for external edification. Paul can you make your mind? No, I think he is bringing the point that there are two purposes, internal edification and external. And the whole point of the passage is: if you are going to speak to the whole congregation in tongues, make sure it comes with interpretation, otherwise that came only for yourself. Notice that speaking in tongue would be the only gift that is also for self-edification.

I do agree that he doesn't make a technical distinction between the the tongues for internal edification and for the church edification: he doesn't use different words, he only says that tongues is for self-edification and for church edification if it comes with interpretation. I do think that trying to use a passage, especially the ones written by Paul, that was meant to address a different issue, to prove the point of baptism of the Spirit evidences is going to be a big challenge. If you are really seeking the truth, better to find it in the passages that are addressing the issue of the baptism of the Holy Spirit specifically. On top of that, Paul rhetoric is challenging at time, especially for 21th century, and things can be taken out of context and turn into misunderstanding quickly. Even Peter warned us about Paul writtings in 2Per 3:15-16 :D.

When the Spirit came in Acts 2:1 to the 120 people in the Upper room, they all spoke in tongues. It doesn't say that some did and some didn't, or that some spoke in tongues, and others prophesied in their native language, and others interpreted the tongues, and others none of the them because they got the word of wisdom. What happened in the Upper Room was definitely not a manifestation of the diversity of spiritual gifts Paul was talking about in 1Cor 12.

I stumbled these verses that are examples why you need to put Paulís writings in its rhetorical context:

Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith; if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.
ó Romans 12:6-8

Arenít we all called to show mercy?


and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
ó 1 Corinthians 7:34

So if a woman is married, she canít be concerned about the things of the Lord?

Anyways, if you donít put those verses in their rhetorical context you wonít see his point.
The same goes with the verses regarding speaking in tongues in 1 Corinthians.


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