Apostolic Friends Forum - Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1477839)

By what the criteria he once used to define a cult, they are. He now believes in the power of the Eucharist and that Mary intercedes for us.

I had a Greek Orthodox friend. He explained that when it comes to the intercession of the Saints it isn't that the believer "prays to the saint". First, they believe that the body of Christ is a single entity that includes both the living and the dead, and that the dead are very much interested in and well aware of what is happening to the body on earth. And some saints have specific interests that are dear to their hearts. And so living believers often implore their prayers as they would a priest, pastor, or other believer.

However, deceased human beings are not all knowing. And so, they believe that those who are elevated to this level of "sainthood" have experienced "glorification". This is a form of "theosis" wherein the saint is partaking in the divine nature to such a degree they are essentially sharing a type of oneness with God. It is due to this divine union that the Saints can "hear" the prayers or petitions of the living. In essence, when praying to a Saint, the Greek Orthodox sees it as praying to the "Divine nature abiding within the Saint". And so the Saint is merely a conduit to reaching and receiving the powers of God Himself. The individual "Saint" cannot take any true credit or glory.

Now, when my friend explained that to me I examined the Scriptures. Some of this is biblical and some of it isn't. Here's what I found...

First: While the Bible does show the saints in Heaven concerned with the body on earth, and while they also pray for the body on earth, NOWHERE are they shown to receive prayers or petitions from the living. And NOWHERE do we see any miracle or healing attributing to a "Glorified Saint" in Scripture.

Second: I was surprised to see a Scriptural basis for "theosis" or "divine union". However, it isn't quite like what the Greek Orthodox understanding is. When one receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit comes to abide in the believer. Through this the believer is said to be in Christ and Christ in the believer. In the Epistles of Peter, Peter mentions this partaking in the divine nature. In I Corinthians, Paul also indicates that whosoever is joined to the Lord is "one spirit" with Him. Christ affirmed that when we receive the Holy Spirit we can know that in that day we shall understand that "I am in my Father, ye in me, and I in you". Our "oneness" is very much like Christ's own oneness with the Father. A mutual abiding and partaking of nature. It is through this union that one is sanctified, puts on the mind of Christ, lives and walks in the Spirit, and it is also through this union that the spiritual gifts flow. And yes, it is through this union that the born again saint of God (every one of us) will experience Glorification after Christ's return that God might be "all in all". This theosis can be experienced on such a level that one partakes in glorification while alive on earth, to the point that one's very identity is tied up in Christ Jesus to the point that one can honestly say that, "I am crucified with Christ, and yet I live. Not I, but Christ who lives within me." However, NOWHERE do we see this being experienced by the dead who dispense miracles based on petition. Theosis is experienced by the living born again believer and we are free to experience this now. Death terminates one's ability to intercede for another. And no one on the other side is to be prayed to or petitioned but God in Christ.

It really is a big and inspiring theological topic. But I'm sad to say that the Bible doesn't support the Greek Orthodox position on it.