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-   -   DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity, (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=28450)

DAII 01-17-2010 12:40 PM

DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Apostolic Unity and admitting: "We have the Message. We have the Experience but the world doesn't even know we exist".

It begins. Or continues ... depending on who you speak to ...

http://www.homemissionsdivision.com/...lt.asp?MID=484


The AI agenda, that is.

Pressing-On 01-17-2010 12:59 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Oh my goodness, guess what? Hardly anyone I know cares what you think about anything. DKB loves God and is more Apostolic in one skin cell than you are in your entire body frame. Just sayin'....... :D

Lord, I see I need to totally take a break. You are most annoying, like a horse fly. Have fun on AFF, Danny Boy. You have a platform. :thumbsup

Timmy 01-17-2010 02:27 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
I will always be more annoying than Danny boy! :lol

RevDWW 01-17-2010 02:53 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
There's nothing wrong with having an identity is there DA? You have an identity here of AFF and elsewhere. The problem comes in when Loving one another is not the major/main ingredient of that identity.

DAII 01-17-2010 02:54 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW (Post 866582)
There's nothing wrong with having an identity is there DA? You have an identity here of AFF and elsewhere. The problem comes in when Loving one another is not the major/main ingredient of that identity.

DWW ... I fear AI has become synonymous mostly with dress code holiness as is evident by some the recent literature and talking points... and not Christ's words ... to his disciples ... that they will know you when you love one another.

RevDWW 01-17-2010 03:08 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 866583)
DWW ... I fear AI has become synonymous mostly with dress code holiness as is evident by some the recent literature and talking points... and not Christ's words ... to his disciples ... that they will know you when you love one another.

No need for you to fear DAII!!!! That mean ole UPCI wouldn't rub off on you......:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

By the way I do agree that not matter how holy one might consider their standards if they ain't exhibiting love one for another they're as wrong as two boys kissing!

Jesus went so far as to teach that we're not to just love our neighbor bt we are to love our enemy.

TJJJ 01-17-2010 03:26 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW (Post 866584)
No need for you to fear DAII!!!! That mean ole UPCI wouldn't rub off on you......:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

By the way I do agree that not matter how holy one might consider their standards if they ain't exhibiting love one for another they're as wrong as two boys kissing!
Jesus went so far as to teach that we're not to just love our neighbor bt we are to love our enemy.

Epleys Back!!!!!

Whoo hoo! Epleys back!

DAII 01-17-2010 03:28 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW (Post 866584)
No need for you to fear DAII!!!! That mean ole UPCI wouldn't rub off on you......:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

By the way I do agree that not matter how holy one might consider their standards if they ain't exhibiting love one for another they're as wrong as two boys kissing!

Jesus went so far as to teach that we're not to just love our neighbor bt we are to love our enemy.

I agree .... DWW .... I think you get the exposure DKB says is sorely missing when love is at the center ... but when the strategy is maintaining a "look" and making it salvific and separatist ... the strategy will remain ineffective.

What's the benefit of monopolizing the Message and Experience when admittedly there is NO EXPOSURE after 60 plus years?

If one believes your paradigm is the restoration of the 1st century Apostolic church then WHAT IS GOING ON?

The first century church and the generations that followed were filled with power and proclaimed the Gospel message with boldness ... but most importantly turned the world as we know it UPSIDE DOWN and were very much front and center ... changing their world as we know it with the Gospel of Jesus Christ ... conquering it with love.

One has to wonder what the problem is if the present model of MAINTAIN, MAINTAIN, MAINTAIN ... has led to our world admittedly to NOT KNOWING YOU.

1st century APOSTOLIC IDENTITY was evident, known, and exposed .... to the world.

Would appear the gates of hell are prevailing ... as long as the focus is a "remnant" outlook.

RevDWW 01-17-2010 03:36 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 866587)
I agree .... DWW .... I think you get the exposure DKB says is sorely missing when love is at the center ... but when the strategy is maintaining a "look" and making it salvific and separatist ... the strategy will remain ineffective.

What's the benefit of monopolizing the Message and Experience when admittedly there is NO EXPOSURE after 60 plus years?

If one believes your paradigm is the restoration of the 1st century Apostolic church then WHAT IS GOING ON?

The first century church and the next generations were filled with power and proclaimed the Gospel message with boldness ... but most importantly turned the world as we know it UPSIDE DOWN and were very much front and center ... changing their world as we know it.

One has to wonder what the problem is if the present model of MAINTAIN, MAINTAIN, MAINTAIN ... has led to our world admittedly to NOT KNOWING YOU.

1st century APOSTOLIC IDENTITY was evident, evident, exposed ....

Evidently........:nod

RevDWW 01-17-2010 03:37 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TJJJ (Post 866586)
Epleys Back!!!!!

Whoo hoo! Epleys back!

He'd probably take great umbrage to folks thinking I were he......besides I'm much taller.......:ursofunny

DAII 01-17-2010 04:09 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW (Post 866590)
Evidently........:nod

I can hear Dr. Phil saying, "How's that workin' out for ya?"

Esther 01-17-2010 04:21 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 866549)
Oh my goodness, guess what? Hardly anyone I know cares what you think about anything. DKB loves God and is more Apostolic in one skin cell than you are in your entire body frame. Just sayin'....... :D

Lord, I see I need to totally take a break. You are most annoying, like a horse fly. Have fun on AFF, Danny Boy. You have a platform. :thumbsup

Hit your ignore button.

Michael Phelps 01-17-2010 04:36 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW (Post 866584)
No need for you to fear DAII!!!! That mean ole UPCI wouldn't rub off on you......:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

By the way I do agree that not matter how holy one might consider their standards if they ain't exhibiting love one for another they're as wrong as two boys kissing!

Jesus went so far as to teach that we're not to just love our neighbor bt we are to love our enemy.

Let's take the UPCI out of the equasion for a minute, I would venture to say that ANY religious organization which puts more focus on identification of the members than they do infiltration of a lost world is going backwards.

Are we more interested in "REvival" or "SURvival"?

This has been my soapbox for a long time, too many churches (Apostolic and non-apostolic) have become showcases instead of distribution centers. How many messages in a given week throughout America are centered on the saints vs. the sinners?

I realize that teaching and preaching to the saints is necessary, but when the focus of our service is keeping the saints saved and not on evangelizing the world, we're out of balance.

Go thru this little exercise - count the instances in the New Testament where Jesus preached to the saved versus ministering to the lost. You'll find that when He DID preach to the saints, it was almost inevitably challenging them to go and minister to the sinners!

RevDWW 01-17-2010 04:41 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps (Post 866610)
Let's take the UPCI out of the equasion for a minute, I would venture to say that ANY religious organization which puts more focus on identification of the members than they do infiltration of a lost world is going backwards.

Are we more interested in "REvival" or "SURvival"?

This has been my soapbox for a long time, too many churches (Apostolic and non-apostolic) have become showcases instead of distribution centers. How many messages in a given week throughout America are centered on the saints vs. the sinners?

I realize that teaching and preaching to the saints is necessary, but when the focus of our service is keeping the saints saved and not on evangelizing the world, we're out of balance.

Go thru this little exercise - count the instances in the New Testament where Jesus preached to the saved versus ministering to the lost. You'll find that when He DID preach to the saints, it was almost inevitably challenging them to go and minister to the sinners!

Good stuff!!!!

The Great Commission is "GO YE"....not "GO HE".....it's not for someone else it's a commission to each of us as individuals. Enough of the hunker in the bunker we need to go out and conquer!

D. Wright 01-17-2010 04:48 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 866549)
Oh my goodness, guess what? Hardly anyone I know cares what you think about anything. DKB loves God and is more Apostolic in one skin cell than you are in your entire body frame. Just sayin'....... :D

Lord, I see I need to totally take a break. You are most annoying, like a horse fly. Have fun on AFF, Danny Boy. You have a platform. :thumbsup

Sister did you listen to the video or would you rather jump DAII?

DAII 01-17-2010 04:52 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Wright (Post 866614)
Sister did you listen to the video or would you rather jump DAII?

D. Wright do you agree with that the 3 greatest challenges facing the UPCI in North America is:

1. Maintain Apostolic Identity
2. Maintain Apostolic Unity
3. Get more exposure

??????

When did unity get the "apostolic" qualifier?

D. Wright 01-17-2010 04:57 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 866616)
D. Wright do you agree with that the 3 greatest challenges facing the UPCI in North America is:

1. Maintain Apostolic Identity
2. Maintain Apostolic Unity
3. Get more exposure

??????

When did unity get the "apostolic" qualifier?

I do not.
1. Maintain Spirit-filled Identity
2. Maintain UNITY i.e. Acts (one mind one accord)
3. Might get them more exposure

Sam 01-17-2010 08:51 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RevDWW (Post 866591)
He'd probably take great umbrage to folks thinking I were he......besides I'm much taller.......:ursofunny

just about everyone is taller than Bro. Eplely

Jeffrey 01-17-2010 08:56 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Somewhere missing is the ultimate mission of the church -- simply:

1) GO
2) Teach
3) Make disciples
4) Baptize

and empowering this mission is the Spirit. Fueling the Mission is the Jesus Creed: Love God, Love your neighbor.

Michael Phelps 01-17-2010 11:17 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey (Post 866711)
Somewhere missing is the ultimate mission of the church -- simply:

1) GO
2) Teach
3) Make disciples
4) Baptize

and empowering this mission is the Spirit. Fueling the Mission is the Jesus Creed: Love God, Love your neighbor.

And THAT, my friends, is all that needs to be said.

*AQuietPlace* 01-18-2010 12:27 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey (Post 866711)
Somewhere missing is the ultimate mission of the church -- simply:

1) GO
2) Teach
3) Make disciples
4) Baptize

and empowering this mission is the Spirit. Fueling the Mission is the Jesus Creed: Love God, Love your neighbor.

:thumbsup

DAII 01-18-2010 06:26 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
The question that keeps arising .... that is linked to DKB's remarks on needing more exposure is whether the axiom in traditional Apostolic Pentecost is true:

Does everyone want what we have?

I found this recent piece by NinetyandNine in which the staff and contributors speak to the changes and challenges in the movement during this decadal transition. Apostolic identity surfaces with regularity in their opinions.

Some compare with Bernard ... one UGST associate professor, unsurprisingly, echoes DKB's Apostolic Identity mantra verbatim ..... while some contrast greatly as to the challenges facing the Apostolic church in the next decade.

http://www.ninetyandnine.com/Archive...1214/cover.htm


I marvel at NinetyNine's executive editor Kent D'Curry's remarks as to the greatest challenge to be linked to Apostolic identity but probably not what DKB wants to hear:

The Apostolic Movement’s biggest challenge in the coming decade is:

Quote:

I’m unconvinced we’ve solidified the most important aspects of our Apostolic identity for the 21st Century.

That might be the result of the yawning generation gap. What most senior leaders seem oblivious to is experienced as an impassable abyss by a majority of the under 40 crowd. Everything from church music to the use of technology to reaching souls to standards to belonging to an organization is understood differently. Can it be overcome? Of course. But first it must be recognized for what it is.
Has the abyss, as D'Curry has stated .... become IMPASSABLE? Is the senior leadership oblivious? Apostolic Identity not solidified?

Also noteworthy in my opinion were these words by Verlon Blackwell, part of that under 40 crowd, as to the greatest challenge:

Quote:

Not only seeing, but also being willing to make the necessary changes for both spiritual and numerical growth. In North America, while the Pentecostal movement itself is growing, the traditional Apostolic movement has had little-to-no growth.
Change is here.

pelathais 01-18-2010 09:07 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
There does seem to be a lot of pressure to maintain the gains made by one faction over the past generation. I wonder what would happen if folks got more involved with what the Bible has to say and dwelt less on the "bifurcated garment" type issues.

I remember one pastor's wife who was terribly up in arms over a couple of guys with "facial hair." She asked me what they should do. "Sit them down and teach them a Bible study on the issue of men's facial hair," I offered.

She stared at me for several seconds with the most dumb-struck expression. The idea of using the Bible for Christian discipleship simply left her dumb-struck.

"The Bible! Can you imagine that?"

TheLegalist 01-18-2010 09:19 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 866549)
Oh my goodness, guess what? Hardly anyone I know cares what you think about anything. DKB loves God and is more Apostolic in one skin cell than you are in your entire body frame. Just sayin'....... :D

Lord, I see I need to totally take a break. You are most annoying, like a horse fly. Have fun on AFF, Danny Boy. You have a platform. :thumbsup

Would totaly agree with this. DA has OCD of the UPCI and anything associated with it. It's really quite alarming.

DividedThigh 01-18-2010 11:42 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
i know all want what i have, i dont have pente anything, i have Jesus, in my heart, dt

RandyWayne 01-18-2010 02:23 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother David (Post 866800)
.....
I remember one pastor's wife who was terribly up in arms over a couple of guys with "facial hair." She asked me what they should do. "Sit them down and teach them a Bible study on the issue of men's facial hair," I offered.

She stared at me for several seconds with the most dumb-struck expression. The idea of using the Bible for Christian discipleship simply left her dumb-struck.

"The Bible! Can you imagine that?"

This is where most cloths-line preachers will come back with "Well, we don't find any Bible for NOT shooting up with heroin do we?".

DAII 01-18-2010 06:09 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
BUMP

Apocrypha 01-18-2010 06:35 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
You should come up with a linguistic/visual meme based on the Bourne Identity or something to really make it stick like you did with branding the HMH issue like the way you did to make everyone who actually believed it to flee in terror to be associated with in either as a term or doctrine.

Michael Phelps 01-18-2010 06:36 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 867006)
You should come up with a linguistic/visual meme based on the Bourne Identity or something to really make it stick like you did with branding the HMH issue like the way you did to make everyone who actually believed it to flee in terror to be associated with in either as a term or doctrine.

OR we could all just discuss it logically without attacking the poster who started the thread.

Just an idea. I know it's not as much fun.:treadmill:

Apocrypha 01-18-2010 06:56 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
I wasn't attacking a poster. I get a kick outta DA and how he goes after issues. Calling the uncut/power with angels doctrine Holy Magic Hair was a great meme. It made a silly and trivial doctrine look silly and trivial. He should do the same with the apostolic identity stuff and give a good counter-programming idea virus.

I mean seriously.. our identity is in Christ... not in a denomination or a movement thats only 100 and change years old.

Michael Phelps 01-18-2010 06:59 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 867020)
I wasn't attacking a poster. I get a kick outta DA and how he goes after issues. Calling the uncut/power with angels doctrine Holy Magic Hair was a great meme. It made a silly and trivial doctrine look silly and trivial. He should do the same with the apostolic identity stuff and give a good counter-programming idea virus.

I mean seriously.. our identity is in Christ... not in a denomination or a movement thats only 100 and change years old.

Gotcha. I guess I read your last statement as an accusation of DA making people flee in terror, when in reality, he has some good points, and we should not be afraid to discuss them.

Thanks for the clarification!

Apocrypha 01-18-2010 07:08 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps (Post 867023)
Gotcha. I guess I read your last statement as an accusation of DA making people flee in terror, when in reality, he has some good points, and we should not be afraid to discuss them.

Thanks for the clarification!

Ya, i'm a fan of Dan :)

DAII 01-18-2010 07:15 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 867006)
You should come up with a linguistic/visual meme based on the Bourne Identity or something to really make it stick like you did with branding the HMH issue like the way you did to make everyone who actually believed it to flee in terror to be associated with in either as a term or doctrine.

You mean something like this Apocrypha ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr79ngkWFwo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhiiKLtF1oI

pelathais 01-18-2010 07:18 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 866911)
This is where most cloths-line preachers will come back with "Well, we don't find any Bible for NOT shooting up with heroin do we?".

It's those kinds of arguments that make me want to wear a dark polyester suit on a 100 degree day.

It's like that Army general said after dealing with bureaucratic foul ups in the wake of Katerina, "You can't fix stupid."

"Because the Bible fails to even mention heroin I must implement and enforce the Roman Catholic practice of forcing grown men to shave their faces so that they look like little boys."

That's good logic, right there.

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 07:21 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
So I guess your attacks on Apostolics is with "LOVE" ? I believe the BIBLE refers to scouffers and mockers. You are fulfilling these scriptures. Your profession of "LOVE" is an awkward one.

What you mean is, "LOVE" to mock and scouff. Can you show me a scripture for this?

RandyWayne 01-18-2010 07:21 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother David (Post 867035)
It's those kinds of arguments that make me want to wear a dark polyester suit on a 100 degree day.

It's like that Army general said after dealing with bureaucratic foul ups in the wake of Katerina, "You can't fix stupid."

"Because the Bible fails to even mention heroin I must implement and enforce the Roman Catholic practice of forcing grown men to shave their faces so that they look like little boys."

That's good logic, right there.

I keep saying, that the logic used is pure Monty Pythonesque.

Michael Phelps 01-18-2010 07:23 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867038)
So I guess your attacks on Apostolics is with "LOVE" ? I believe the BIBLE refers to scouffers and mockers. You are fulfilling these scriptures. Your profession of "LOVE" is an awkward one.

What you mean is, "LOVE" to mock and scouff. Can you show me a scripture for this?

Which attacks are you referring to?

DAII 01-18-2010 07:25 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 867020)
He should do the same with the apostolic identity stuff and give a good counter-programming idea virus.

I mean seriously.. our identity is in Christ... not in a denomination or a movement thats only 100 and change years old.


Truth be told ... the org's AI propaganda is on the radar ... and has been for some time ...

I think it will be the discussion for the foreseeable future as it central to DKB's branding campaign.

It's plastered on his Twitter account ... http://twitter.com/DavidKBernard

Let the discussion happen ... IMO.

Apocrypha 01-18-2010 07:25 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867038)
So I guess your attacks on Apostolics is with "LOVE" ? I believe the BIBLE refers to scouffers and mockers. You are fulfilling these scriptures. Your profession of "LOVE" is an awkward one.

What you mean is, "LOVE" to mock and scouff. Can you show me a scripture for this?

You want to keep it strictly scripture or can we open it up to the ante-nicene church fathers?

If just scripture.. Galatians 2:11

New International Version (©1984)
When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.
New Living Translation (©2007)
But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

International Standard Version (©2008)
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly wrong.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
When Cephas came to Antioch, I had to openly oppose him because he was completely wrong.

King James Bible
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

pelathais 01-18-2010 07:30 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 867006)
You should come up with a linguistic/visual meme based on the Bourne Identity or something to really make it stick like you did with branding the HMH issue like the way you did to make everyone who actually believed it to flee in terror to be associated with in either as a term or doctrine.

"Apostolic Identity... it was good enough for the Apostles of the mid to later half of the Twentieth Century - it's good enough for you!

Except that we now ask the ladies to shave their legs."


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