Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 KJV (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? (6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The subject is the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him. This is unquestionably what "the rapture" concept is about - the return of the Lord and our being gathered together with Him.

That day is not "at hand", meaning it is NOT IMMINENT. Pre trib rapture heresy claims the rapture is an "imminent" event, meaning it could happen AT ANY TIME.

That day shall NOT COME until and except there is FIRST the "apostasy" and the rise of the "man of sin". Furthermore, the "man of sin" is to be revealed BEFORE that day of the Lord's coming and our gathering together with Him takes place.

The man of sin is DESTROYED by the COMING OF THE LORD. There is obviously one coming of the Lord being discussed in this chapter, and it includes "our gathering together with Him". Thus, the pre trib nonsense about "first the rapture, then the visible coming of the Lord" is just that - nonsense.

The pre trib rapture heresy teaches that the Lord comes, and we are gathered together with Him, BEFORE the man of sin is on the scene. Furthermore, it teaches that we are gathered together to the Lord at some event OTHER than the coming of the Lord in which the man of sin is destroyed. Both of which are in direct contradiction to the plain and unambiguous statements of the apostle.

This is apostolic doctrine, as taught by an apostle. Pre trib rapture doctrine is NOT APOSTOLIC. It is no more apostolic than trinity idolatry, easy believism, sinner's prayerism, sprinkling, confession to a priest, or kissing the pope's ring.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

I beg to differ.

To teach saints that the wrath of God depicted in the book of Rev. will be poured out on the inhabitants of the earth along with the saints is heresy in the highest order.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?




Noah spared God's wrath, Lot spared God's wrath, Saints un-spared?

Not a chance.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

As is usually the case with heresies, the proponents of said heresies never can point to a passage which directly teaches what they teach. No pre trib rapture proponent can point to a passage which clearly and unequivocally declares that the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him will occur BEFORE the apostasy, the revealing of the man of sin, and his destruction. Not one passage.

Instead, they kerfuffle and herharrumfle from this to that to that other thing off yonder, always dancing around the actual plain statements of scripture.

Pre trib is heretical, unbiblical, non apostolic nonsense. Invented in the 1830s by a (false) prophetess named Margaret MacDonald, picked up by the Brethren movement who gave us both heresies of dispensationalism and pre trib rapturism, and popularised by Cyrus Scofield, a rascal's rascal and an undeniably fraudulent huckster.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Revelation 20:1-6 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection occurs at the beginning of the thousand years. Satan is bound at the beginning of the thousand years. According to pre trib rapture heresy, the first resurrection occurs some 7 years before the thousand years begins. According to pre trib rapture heresy, satan is unopposed to run the earth into the ground via the beast and false prophet AFTER the first resurrection occurs.

Pre trib rapture heresy is a Biblical impossibility.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

1 Thessalonians 5:9 is the scripture by which I was taught that the church will be in heaven when the earth is going thru tribulation.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Behold, the pre-trib verse......



Revelation 4:1King James Version (KJV)

4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.



.....hereafter the churches of Rev 1-3.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Chapter 5.....the seals opened to unleash the wrath of God on the inhabitants of the earth.


Chapter 6.....the wrath begins....




Revelation 6King James Version (KJV)

6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (9) For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

God has not appointed us to wrath. Instead, as a solution or contrast to being appointed to wrath, God has appointed us to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice, there is nothing in this scripture about the second coming, no rapture, no resurrection mentioned, no time table, none of that. Furthermore, look at the context of the chapter:

Verse 1 says the brethren have no need for Paul to write them of the "times and the seasons". Why not? Because they knew that the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night. Does this mean imminence? That it could happen anytime? No, it just means, as Paul explains in verses 3-7, that it comes at a time when the world does not expect.

He explains that we are not in darkness, that the day should overtake us as a thief in the night. This is CLEARLY stating the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night TO THE LOST, not to the saints. The saints are not in darkness, they are awake, they are sober, dressed in the armour of righteousness. And therefore, the day of the Lord does not come upon them as a thief in the night. It does not catch them unprepared. Why? Because the saints are always prepared to meet the Lord!

1 Thessalonians 5:10 (10) Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Whether we live or die is irrelevant. God is not concerned with making sure we don't die. Rather, God is concerned with making sure that we have eternal life. So whether we live, or die, no matter WHAT happens in this life, we find ourselves with Him to live forever. This again proves that the "not appointed unto wrath" has nothing to do with being removed from the earth to avoid the "horrors of the tribulation".

God hasn't appointed any saint unto wrath. And we have already been delivered from the wrath to come:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 (10) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

We've already been delivered or saved from the coming wrath. How? By being raptured? No, by being placed into Christ. Pre trib rapture heresy denies we have already been delivered from the coming wrath.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

The big, bad, tough post tribbers would be whimpering when this happens to them and their loved ones.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

EVERY SINGLE "PROOF TEXT" the rapturists use in support of their claim can be explained within a post trib rapture understanding.

But there are numerous proof texts used which prove a "post trib" resurrection of the saints that CANNOT BE HARMONIZED WITH THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE TEACHING.

Furthermore, there is NOT ONE SINGLE TEXT OF SCRIPTURE which actualy states the pre trib doctrine. Just like the trinity doctrine, pre trib rapturism is based upon supposition, eisegesis, interpretation, opinion, and exegetical gymnastics. Whereas the truth is based upon the plain and simple declarations of the Scriptures where they speak on the very subject.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

1 Thessalonians 5:9King James Version (KJV)

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,




Right....the church will never see this wrath of God on the inhabitants of the earth as seen in chapter 6.:nod

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Furthermore, there is NOT ONE SINGLE TEXT OF SCRIPTURE which actually states the pre trib doctrine.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

...just posted it!

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

If someone preaches pro-wrath, they can have all they want.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Did somebody leave the screen door open?

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

As is usually the case with heresies, the proponents of said heresies never can point to a passage which directly teaches what they teach. No pre trib rapture proponent can point to a passage which clearly and unequivocally declares that the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him will occur BEFORE the apostasy, the revealing of the man of sin, and his destruction. Not one passage.

Instead, they kerfuffle and herharrumfle from this to that to that other thing off yonder, always dancing around the actual plain statements of scripture.

Pre trib is heretical, unbiblical, non apostolic nonsense. Invented in the 1830s by a (false) prophetess named Margaret MacDonald, picked up by the Brethren movement who gave us both heresies of dispensationalism and pre trib rapturism, and popularised by Cyrus Scofield, a rascal's rascal and an undeniably fraudulent huckster.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Not a single item of the wrath of God depicted on the inhabitants of the earth from chapter 6 through chapter 20 will affect the Holy Ghost filled saints.

Why? Because the Spirit filled church is not found after chapter 4 on earth.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

As is usually the case with heresies, the proponents of said heresies never can point to a passage which directly teaches what they teach. No pre trib rapture proponent can point to a passage which clearly and unequivocally declares that the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him will occur BEFORE the apostasy, the revealing of the man of sin, and his destruction. Not one passage.

Instead, they kerfuffle and herharrumfle from this to that to that other thing off yonder, always dancing around the actual plain statements of scripture.

Pre trib is heretical, unbiblical, non apostolic nonsense. Invented in the 1830s by a (false) prophetess named Margaret MacDonald, picked up by the Brethren movement who gave us both heresies of dispensationalism and pre trib rapturism, and popularised by Cyrus Scofield, a rascal's rascal and an undeniably fraudulent huckster.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Chapter 5.

The seals opened by Jesus Christ to unleash the wrath of God, while the Church is in heaven praising God already.....




Revelation 5King James Version (KJV)

5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Heresy!!!


https://youtu.be/9Jj-BM5BiXE?t=3529




LOL

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Like I said...

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

The rapture cult claims that there is no mention of the church on earth after Revelation ch 3, and therefore the church is in heaven after ch 3, and therefore the rapture must have taken place before ch 4 begins.

This is false.

First of all, it is false because - once again - there is NO ACTUAL TEXT STATING THE CHURCH IS RAPTURED BEFORE REVELATION CHAPTER 4 BEGINS. That is an assumption based upon a predetermined belief in the rapture doctrine. Just like trinitarian "proof texts" which are not proof texts at all, just INTERPRETATIONS which require a pre existing doctrine of trinitarianism. Nobody just reading the Bible would come away with a pre trib rapture belief. They must first hear the doctrine, THEN reinterpret the Bible to fit the doctrine.

Secondly, the church IS FOUND ON THE EARTH AFTER CHAPTER 3!

Ch 4 is the four living creatures and the 24 elders seated on thrones around the throne.

Ch 5 is the four living creatures, the 24 elders, and an innumerable host of angels, and the Lamb, in the throne room.

Ch 6 has saints who were martyred calling to be avenged. It is stated they had to rest a while longer until their FELLOWSERVANTS should be killed like they were. THIS IS PROOF THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 6.

Ch 7 has the angels about to hurt the earth, but are told to wait until the servants of God had been sealed. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 7.

Ch 7 also has an innumerable company of saints around the throne out of every nation. Who are they? According to verse 14 they are those which "came out of great tribulation." The Greek is literally "which came out of the great tribulation." In fact, the Greek is actually MORE emphatic than any English translation could be - "they which came out of the tribulation the great." THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

Ch 8 has the angel offering the incense in heaven, "with the prayers of all the saints". Saints in heaven have no need to pray, they would be in the very literal presence of God. Therefore, THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 8.

Ch 9 has the locust army from the bottomless pit being allowed to hurt ONLY those who do not have the seal of God. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS UPON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 9.

Ch 12 states explicitly that the dragon persecutes - in the earth - those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 12.

Ch 13 describes the Beast arising from the sea and making war with the saints and persecuting them. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS UPON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 13.

Ch 14 declares "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth." THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 14.

Ch 17 describes the great whore, Babylon, and chapter 18 announces her impending destruction at the hands of the Beast's horns, and a call is given to God's people to come out of Babylon to escape the judgements that are about to come upon her. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTERS 17-18.

Ch 20 describes the first resurrection, which includes those who had gotten the victory over the Beast and who had rejected his mark. THIS PROVES THERE WERE SAINTS ON THE EARTH DURING THE REIGN OF THE BEAST POWER.

So much for pre trib nonsense.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Just a reminder -

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 KJV (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (5) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? (6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The subject is the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him. This is unquestionably what "the rapture" concept is about - the return of the Lord and our being gathered together with Him.

That day is not "at hand", meaning it is NOT IMMINENT. Pre trib rapture heresy claims the rapture is an "imminent" event, meaning it could happen AT ANY TIME.

That day shall NOT COME until and except there is FIRST the "apostasy" and the rise of the "man of sin". Furthermore, the "man of sin" is to be revealed BEFORE that day of the Lord's coming and our gathering together with Him takes place.

The man of sin is DESTROYED by the COMING OF THE LORD. There is obviously one coming of the Lord being discussed in this chapter, and it includes "our gathering together with Him". Thus, the pre trib nonsense about "first the rapture, then the visible coming of the Lord" is just that - nonsense.

The pre trib rapture heresy teaches that the Lord comes, and we are gathered together with Him, BEFORE the man of sin is on the scene. Furthermore, it teaches that we are gathered together to the Lord at some event OTHER than the coming of the Lord in which the man of sin is destroyed. Both of which are in direct contradiction to the plain and unambiguous statements of the apostle.

This is apostolic doctrine, as taught by an apostle. Pre trib rapture doctrine is NOT APOSTOLIC. It is no more apostolic than trinity idolatry, easy believism, sinner's prayerism, sprinkling, confession to a priest, or kissing the pope's ring.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Excellent keep up the good fight.:thumbsup

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Yeah, keep discouraging the saints with their Saviors' wrath on them, their loved ones and neighbors.

Good job.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Esaias is saying that Jesus will be opening these seals to slay his own, Spirit filled saints and their loved ones.

He ignores the saints found in heaven chapter 5.

Beware of the heresy by those that say Jesus will terrorize His bride.:nod

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Post tribbers teach this is other than the saints already in heaven....




Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.....



Instead, they teach that Jesus, our savior is sicking the devil on us and our families....


Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


It is the craziest depiction of our loving Bridegroom I have ever seen, but they insist nonetheless.(Woe to the Church)

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.





Brethren, if you think the devil is taking a wrecking ball to your life now, wait til God sicks the devil on you, as an inhabitant of the earth during the great tribulation.

You aint seen nothin yet.(post trib thinking).

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Oh, and dont forget, Jesus loves you(post tribber).

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Post tribbers believe the Spirit filled saints will seek death and not find it.....



And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.



But, Jesus loves them no matter what agony his Bride has to endure at His hands.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.




These evil things will drive the Spirit filled saints insane(if they are post trib saints).





Lucky for the 144,000 Jews at least, huh?

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Post tribbers also think the Spirit filled saints must endure this awful event, sent by God, with 1/3rd of the people in the world slain by evil entities.....



15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

Revelation 3:10King James Version (KJV)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


Thank you Jesus.:nod

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

His NAME is Jesus!

Esaias has posted some very interesting points which cannot be refuterd: they
may certainly be denied, but not refuted. Look to the days of creation:
Day 2: "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst
of the waters, and let it DIVIDE the waters from the waters." There has
always been a division between God's chosen people, and the earthly people;
between cattle and cattle; between the sheep and the goats. God also made
a difference (a division) between the Egyptians and the his people living in the
Land of Goshen: the plagues did not affect them in Goshen! Why? God knows
how to make a difference.

Beloved, you must realize that there is also a very huge difference between the
persecution of the saints, and the tribulation that will befall the world. The
world hates us (God's people); and it will try to kill us. but the tribulation is
not meant for the saints: it is meant to draw to repentance as many that
may be saved!

If anyone insists that the tribulation is NOT for the saints, they are correct. It is
NOT FOR THE SAINTS: it is for those "borderline" believers, that they may call
upon the Lord. And please don't mistake the tribulation as a penalty for those
who are disobedient. No: that's what the Lake of Fire is for!

Brother Villa

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

As is usually the case with heresies, the proponents of said heresies never can point to a passage which directly teaches what they teach. No pre trib rapture proponent can point to a passage which clearly and unequivocally declares that the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him will occur BEFORE the apostasy, the revealing of the man of sin, and his destruction. Not one passage.

Instead, they kerfuffle and herharrumfle from this to that to that other thing off yonder, always dancing around the actual plain statements of scripture.

Pre trib is heretical, unbiblical, non apostolic nonsense. Invented in the 1830s by a (false) prophetess named Margaret MacDonald, picked up by the Brethren movement who gave us both heresies of dispensationalism and pre trib rapturism, and popularised by Cyrus Scofield, a rascal's rascal and an undeniably fraudulent huckster.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy
 

EVERY SINGLE "PROOF TEXT" the rapturists use in support of their claim can be explained within a post trib rapture understanding.

But there are numerous proof texts used which prove a "post trib" resurrection of the saints that CANNOT BE HARMONIZED WITH THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE TEACHING.

Furthermore, there is NOT ONE SINGLE TEXT OF SCRIPTURE which actualy states the pre trib doctrine. Just like the trinity doctrine, pre trib rapturism is based upon supposition, eisegesis, interpretation, opinion, and exegetical gymnastics. Whereas the truth is based upon the plain and simple declarations of the Scriptures where they speak on the very subject.

Re: Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy