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Bishop1 06-07-2007 10:13 PM

" Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?

JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6

(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:

(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.

(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.

(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.

(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.

(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.

:13loads

WHAT SAY YE ?


__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com

"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}


Bishop1
:girlpopcorn

Scott Hutchinson 06-07-2007 10:29 PM

I personally don't do the Christmas tree thing because I have a personal conviction on the matter.

crakjak 06-07-2007 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop1 (Post 146307)
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?

JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6

(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:

(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.

(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.

(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.

(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.

(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.

:13loads

WHAT SAY YE ?


__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com

"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}

:girlpopcorn



Not again! Spare us!

Chan 06-11-2007 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop1 (Post 146307)
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?

JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6

(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:

(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.

(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.

(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.

(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.

(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.

:13loads

WHAT SAY YE ?


__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com

"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}

Bishop1
:girlpopcorn

It would certainly seem that this passage from Jeremiah show us a pagan practice that remarkably resembles Christmas trees (Christmas, as a holiday, came from a pagan Persian holiday celebrating the birth of Mithra, as well as from other sources, such as the Roman celebration of Saturnalia).

Digging4Truth 06-11-2007 10:41 AM

I think this.

The practice of decorating an evergreen tree around the current calender date December 25 is indeed taken from pagan worship.

The part of the scripture above that you are quoting from may be speaking of a similar practice and it may not. The scripture isn't clear enough to tell for sure either.

The scripture does specifically mention early morning services on a particular day and call them an abomination (I'm pretty sure that is what God called them... I'd have to check) and that practice had to do with the early spring festival which still bears a stylized version of the name of the goddess Ishtar (Easter)

But... if I were going to take a portion of the scripture you quoted and use it in references to these pagan practices and their being practiced in Christianity I would use the following portion...

Quote:

Hear ye the word which The LORD speaketh unto you, O House of Israel:
Thus Saith The Lord, Learn Not The Way Of The Heathen,

HeavenlyOne 06-11-2007 06:39 PM

A popular misconception about 'the Christmas tree' verses is that, when one reads them correctly and as they are written, you will read that it's speaking of idols made of wood, not Christmas trees.

Quote:

For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
This is what people did when making wooden idols.

Quote:

The work of the hands of the workman, With An Axe.
Know what a woodman does? He doesn't just chop down trees, but carves them into statues. Ever seen the work of someone who does that?


Quote:

THEY DECK IT WITH SILVER AND WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It With Nails And With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.
They fastened trees down with nails so it wouldn't move? Why not leave it in the ground then???

No, it wasn't trees they were bringing in the house and decorating, but idols made of wood. It's that simple. No reason to read more into scripture than what is already there.

KwaiQ 06-24-2007 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne (Post 150544)
A popular misconception about 'the Christmas tree' verses is that, when one reads them correctly and as they are written, you will read that it's speaking of idols made of wood, not Christmas trees.



This is what people did when making wooden idols.



Know what a woodman does? He doesn't just chop down trees, but carves them into statues. Ever seen the work of someone who does that?




They fastened trees down with nails so it wouldn't move? Why not leave it in the ground then???

No, it wasn't trees they were bringing in the house and decorating, but idols made of wood. It's that simple. No reason to read more into scripture than what is already there.

I agree. Worshipping a Christmas tree is pagan. Putting one up in your house for tradition's sake is not necessarily a bad/evil thing. But to each there own I suppose.

mfblume 10-06-2007 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne (Post 150544)
A popular misconception about 'the Christmas tree' verses is that, when one reads them correctly and as they are written, you will read that it's speaking of idols made of wood, not Christmas trees.



This is what people did when making wooden idols.



Know what a woodman does? He doesn't just chop down trees, but carves them into statues. Ever seen the work of someone who does that?


They fastened trees down with nails so it wouldn't move? Why not leave it in the ground then???

No, it wasn't trees they were bringing in the house and decorating, but idols made of wood. It's that simple. No reason to read more into scripture than what is already there.

BRAVO! Someone else reads correctly! LOL

That is EXACTLY what the passage is saying. It is easy to miss the actual meaning from the 1611 KJV, and think it is actually a tree like a christmas tree. lol Common mistake.

Amen!

MrsMcD 10-06-2007 08:41 PM

:thumbsup Way to go HO

drummerboy_dave 10-06-2007 08:55 PM

Oy vey!

Digging4Truth 10-07-2007 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 265369)
BRAVO! Someone else reads correctly! LOL

That is EXACTLY what the passage is saying. It is easy to miss the actual meaning from the 1611 KJV, and think it is actually a tree like a christmas tree. lol Common mistake.

Amen!

Do you feel that today's "Christmas tree" is a derivative of pagan practices?

alogi 01-30-2008 10:34 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
First off the whole idea of christmas is pagan, along with
easter,valentines,saint patty etc.These holidays are of the Catholic cult.
They should not be observed by true Apostolics.
One cannot mix pagan and Christian ,that is what has been done here through these holidays. The Tammuz tree is just part of agreater diabolical, scheeme to turn the true worshippers away from the true God Jesus Christ.By observing things of this world. That is pay homage to the creation,instead of the one who creates.
Brethren remove yourselves from Idoltry.Let us get back to the worship of the Jewish God'' Jesus Christ''
Shalom
Alogi

HeavenlyOne 01-30-2008 10:40 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Alogi, I see you are new here, but we don't care to talk about Christmas trees in January, regardless what side of the fence we are on.

Thank you.

MissBrattified 01-30-2008 10:43 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
:D

Joelel 01-30-2008 11:09 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop1 (Post 146307)
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?

JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6

(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:

(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.

(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.

(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.

(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.

(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.

:13loads

WHAT SAY YE ?


__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com

"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}


Bishop1
:girlpopcorn

All the holiday's have pagan things connected to them.Best to leave all of it alone.

HeavenlyOne 01-30-2008 11:19 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel (Post 374026)
All the holiday's have pagan things connected to them.Best to leave all of it alone.

So do the days of the week and months of the year.

Throw out the calendars!!

Digging4Truth 01-30-2008 11:34 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel (Post 374026)
All the holiday's have pagan things connected to them.Best to leave all of it alone.

Not that we are compelled to practice or celebrate them...

But... do the festivals set forth by God have pagan things connected to them?

ie... Passover, Feast Of Tabernacles etc

Digging4Truth 01-30-2008 11:39 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne (Post 374036)
So do the days of the week and months of the year.

Throw out the calendars!!

Honest question...

Can you understand where those who do not celebrate the holidays (such as myself) could see a difference between christmas etc which is part of our worship to God and the names of the days of the week which are simply part of our every day lives?

I do not celebrate these holidays in an effort to live my personal conviction to keep what I offer to God in worship as free from pagan influence as possible.

I do see the near impossibility of cleansing my every day life of these influences. Even the clock is built on a pagan concept.

But when I offer worship to God I strive, to the best of my ability, to do that according to the word and free from pagan influences.

Now... before you answer let me make this clear. I don't condemn anyone else for celebrating. This is mine & my families personal conviction that we love and are excited about.

I am just asking... since I see this comment so regularly when these discussion come up... can you not see where that particular line of delineation comes for us? Does it make any sense at all?

Just asking... Thanks in advance for your response.

alogi 01-30-2008 02:43 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Christmas is pagan, church history has shown this.Its not Christ's bithrday.
One cannot take what is unholy and make it Holy.
This season is an abomination to God and one had better heed to what they attribute to God.
God is not one to be mocked
Alogi

OneAccord 01-30-2008 07:47 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 374059)
Honest question...

Can you understand where those who do not celebrate the holidays (such as myself) could see a difference between christmas etc which is part of our worship to God and the names of the days of the week which are simply part of our every day lives?

I do not celebrate these holidays in an effort to live my personal conviction to keep what I offer to God in worship as free from pagan influence as possible.

I do see the near impossibility of cleansing my every day life of these influences. Even the clock is built on a pagan concept.

But when I offer worship to God I strive, to the best of my ability, to do that according to the word and free from pagan influences.

Now... before you answer let me make this clear. I don't condemn anyone else for celebrating. This is mine & my families personal conviction that we love and are excited about.

I am just asking... since I see this comment so regularly when these discussion come up... can you not see where that particular line of delineation comes for us? Does it make any sense at all?

Just asking... Thanks in advance for your response.

It is precisely this kind of post that I have tremendous respect for. I won't disagree with what you say, and I won't try to "sway" you into my way of thinking.

What I will do is say that I have a lot of respect for people who stick to their convictions, without being judgemental toward others who do not share those convictions. It makes perfect sense to me that you are sincere in your effort to keep yourself unspotted from the world. I applaud your effort, and appreciate your spirit!


Huh, I have to ask. Not to make light of a serious topic, but isn't this usually done around Dec. 25th?

Digging4Truth 01-31-2008 06:19 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OneAccord (Post 374474)
Huh, I have to ask. Not to make light of a serious topic, but isn't this usually done around Dec. 25th?

Indeed... Unfortunately you are right. :)

Years ago we went to a church when we were in Texas and the pastor did not believe in keeping the holidays. I remember him telling me one time... I just don't think that it's smart to teach on these things in December. I think teaching on these things in January... when all those credit card bills come in... gets a much better reception. :)

He is, truly, a wise man.

My current stance of living and loving my own convictions and yet finding no fault in my brother who does not share those convictions was taught to me by that same pastor. I have not always held my convictions in this fashion. Years ago I was the zealous, in your face, person as well.

Thankfully through good teaching from a good man who taught me the nature of a great God I am free to enjoy my convictions and respect my brothers.

I like this way much better.

brotherjason 01-31-2008 07:46 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alogi (Post 374234)
Christmas is pagan, church history has shown this.Its not Christ's bithrday.
One cannot take what is unholy and make it Holy.
This season is an abomination to God and one had better heed to what they attribute to God.
God is not one to be mocked
Alogi

Amen! Even the puritans saw it for what it was, they outlawed it! It's another tradition handed down from the harlot. :) I don't make many friends that way, but it's the truth anyhow!

AmazingGrace 01-31-2008 11:26 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Yes Christmas trees may be pagan but I just use them to hide my Easter baskets and TV!


p.s. Happy St Pattys day! and Trick or Treat!

RevBuddy 01-31-2008 12:39 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?

JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6

No, they're not, but the real ones are usually green...and the artificial ones are usually silver...

this should help you back to reality... :happydance

Digging4Truth 01-31-2008 01:09 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
There are definitely respect issues on both sides of the fence.

There are those who refrain who speak sarcastically to those who do not and vice versa.

Nothing is generally accomplished on any subject until both sides can speak with respect for each others position.

Barring that no growth can be expected.

RevBuddy 01-31-2008 01:28 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 375110)
There are definitely respect issues on both sides of the fence.

There are those who refrain who speak sarcastically to those who do not and vice versa.

Nothing is generally accomplished on any subject until both sides can speak with respect for each others position.

Barring that no growth can be expected.

HUH?????

Digging4Truth 01-31-2008 01:32 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RevBuddy (Post 375125)
HUH?????

On this subject there are, admittedly, a plethora of those on the side of refraining from the holidays who speak to those who would disagree with disdain, insults & attacks. For that I am not proud.

But on the side of those who practice the holidays there are often equally as distasteful remarks and attitudes at work.

People too often make cuts at those who do not see things as they do rather than simply discussing these things openly, fairly and with respect for one another position.

Until that happens nothing very substantial will be accomplished.

Jason B 11-30-2009 08:22 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
bump-Is Jeremiah 10 speaking of the "christmas tree?"

Digging4Truth 12-01-2009 06:47 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 265369)
BRAVO! Someone else reads correctly! LOL

That is EXACTLY what the passage is saying. It is easy to miss the actual meaning from the 1611 KJV, and think it is actually a tree like a christmas tree. lol Common mistake.

Amen!

But the passage did say to not learn the way of the Heathen right?

The question asked of the thread is whether the christmas tree is pagan...

Would anyone disagree that it is a direct descendant of pagan rituals & customs adapted by the Catholic church?

Is it not then a way of the heathen?

Should it not, then, also go the way of the statues, eucharist etc?

Digging4Truth 12-01-2009 06:48 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason (Post 840757)
bump-Is Jeremiah 10 speaking of the "christmas tree?"

The portions that speak of cutting down a tree etc.... most likely not.

But it did instruct to refrain from learning the way of the heathen. The christmas tree is an adaptation of heathen worship.

Digging4Truth 12-01-2009 06:49 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RevBuddy (Post 375125)
HUH?????

Do you feel that anger and disrespect is necessary for growth and truth?

Truthseeker 12-01-2009 09:22 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Christmas is so vain, shallow and overrated.

Timmy 12-01-2009 09:57 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker (Post 840932)
Christmas is so vain, shallow and overrated.

And it probably thinks this thread is about it. :lol

KWSS1976 12-01-2009 10:07 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
alright Carly Simon...lol

Timmy 12-01-2009 10:14 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
:D

missourimary 12-01-2009 10:24 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
http://www.history.com/content/chris...een-traditions

People used evergreen boughs in various pagan worship at a few points in history. They also used palms, though.

Jeremiah wasn't referring to Christmas trees, since there was no Christmas yet. He was referring to idols-Ashtera poles and such-to which people bowed down and worshipped.

There are people who are convicted by Christmas trees. If they are, that's ok. If they aren't, that's perfectly fine too.

Christmas tree traditions started in the 1500s. They were not the offspring of a pagan tradition as such. Martin Luther had a tree, so they probably weren't Catholic either. Christmas trees haven't always been decorated with gold and silver, nor are they always now.

I don't have a tree. I would want a real one but feel bad killing one. I don't like plastic trees. So I don't have one at all. But it isn't a conviction, just personal taste.

pastorrick1959 12-01-2009 01:08 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
amen

Sam 12-01-2009 01:16 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
A month or so after I was baptized in Jesus' Name in October 1955 I started attending a UPC church in Racine, WI. There was a large decorated Christmas tree on the platform. I didn't really think anything of it because I had seen a Christmas tree in at least one denominational church.

Do you have a Christmas tree in your home or in your church?

Is it OK to have a Christmas tree in a home but wrong to have one in Church?

Digging4Truth 12-01-2009 01:18 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 840989)
Christmas tree traditions started in the 1500s. They were not the offspring of a pagan tradition as such. Martin Luther had a tree, so they probably weren't Catholic either. Christmas trees haven't always been decorated with gold and silver, nor are they always now.

Where did he come up with the idea of bringing an evergreen tree into his home on or around december 25th and decorating it in celebration of the birth of the son of God?

Digging4Truth 12-01-2009 01:23 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 841093)
A month or so after I was baptized in Jesus' Name in October 1955 I started attending a UPC church in Racine, WI. There was a large decorated Christmas tree on the platform. I didn't really think anything of it because I had seen a Christmas tree in at least one denominational church.

Do you have a Christmas tree in your home or in your church?

Is it OK to have a Christmas tree in a home but wrong to have one in Church?

I have a lot of beliefs that differ from those who are in charge of the churches I have attended and I generally just hold my beliefs to myself and let things go as they may.

But... I would not attend a church during the time they had a christmas tree displayed if the church I was attending did so.

I generally allow my children to take part in whatever programs their class is doing as they generally revolve around actual mentions of Christ etc but I have pulled my kids out of one program. They were singing O Christmas Tree.

I do my best to live and worship peaceably with my church family but I do have my limits.


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