Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   The Library (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? " (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=4627)

pastorrick1959 12-01-2009 03:30 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
i will say amen to you again diggin for truth!

Jason B 12-01-2009 05:19 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth (Post 841100)
I generally allow my children to take part in whatever programs their class is doing as they generally revolve around actual mentions of Christ etc but I have pulled my kids out of one program. They were singing O Christmas Tree.
I do my best to live and worship peaceably with my church family but I do have my limits.

I do Christmas, but that is one taboo for my kids also. Won't be any of that. Also, family members got bent out of shape because I told my kids early on there was no Santa Claus. I didn't want their motivation for right living to be santa and toys, but rather Jesus Christ.

Scott Hutchinson 12-01-2009 10:07 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Here is an article by Charles Halff,who was Jewish.
http://www.sovereigngrace.net/should.htm

Hoovie 12-01-2009 10:20 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason (Post 841264)
I do Christmas, but that is one taboo for my kids also. Won't be any of that. Also, family members got bent out of shape because I told my kids early on there was no Santa Claus. I didn't want their motivation for right living to be santa and toys, but rather Jesus Christ.

Awe yes. We told ours as well. We do not shun him entirely however, but just treat him as other imaginary characters (Peter Pan, Pinocchio etc.) Also, we share the true story of how St Nicholas helped to the poor.

But no lying! :)

Scott Hutchinson 12-01-2009 10:38 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
I've been a good boy maybe Santa will bring me a cap or two.

shag 12-02-2009 06:30 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie (Post 841424)
Awe yes. We told ours as well. We do not shun him entirely however, but just treat him as other imaginary characters (Peter Pan, Pinocchio etc.) Also, we share the true story of how St Nicholas helped to the poor.

But no lying! :)



We dont put up a Christ-mass:D tree, because while "decking it" in our home, I cannot get pass the thoughts that the origin of what I am doing, I feel, most likely does in fact stem from paganism or heathen customs (in which God despised), and hasn't got anything to do with Jesus, no matter what story I conjur up to justify it. 95% of all my friends do however, and we understand & respect eachother and are careful not to judge eachother, as I realize others are not led by my convictions, and vice versa.

I quoted you, Steve, for this reason: i had read somewhere about st. nicholas giving gifts to the poor, and found nothing wrong with, as in your post, finding the truth of that and st. nick, and sharing it with my kids, his giving to the poor and such. So to try to find info. concerning what he did, I came across this short read. I intend to tell them about st. nick, to some degree, but reading this article of what he supposedly did, makes me question what all the truth actually is behind the stories regarding him. It even says he calmed the seas. Maybe he did? ("who is this that even the winds and the seas obey him") I'll probably leave that one out:), but like you, maybe I should keep it basically on being known for "sharing with the poor".

here it is:
Any thoughts?

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38

MomOfADramaQn 12-02-2009 06:39 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop1 (Post 146307)
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?

JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6

(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:

(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.

(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.

(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.

(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.

(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.

:13loads

WHAT SAY YE ?


__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com

"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}


Bishop1
:girlpopcorn


I guess I am ok then - I did not cut mine out of the woods -bought mine at a department store.

MomOfADramaQn 12-02-2009 07:04 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
I think organized religion is paganism at its best. Now - I am going to go finish decorating my 3 christmas trees that are in my house.

Jason B 12-02-2009 08:17 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MomOfADramaQn (Post 841505)
I guess I am ok then - I did not cut mine out of the woods -bought mine at a department store.

:toofunny

Sam 12-02-2009 08:31 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MomOfADramaQn (Post 841505)
I guess I am ok then - I did not cut mine out of the woods -bought mine at a department store.

Some years ago I belonged to an organization called The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith. Our Headquarters was at 1335 Fort Street in Niles, MI. Our Presiding Bishop was G.R. Brock. Bishop Brock was against grape juice in communion, television, and Christmas trees.

We had a church down in SW Kentucky where the father and an adult son both were preachers and I think both were in the organization. One year the adult son decided he was going to have a Christmas tree. The father was horrified but some of them went to the woods and brought home a tree. When they brought it into the house, the father called them "heatherns" and said they were disobeying the Bible. The younger preacher said, "No, we didn't disobey the Bible. The Bible says 'one cutteth a tree out of the forest.' We didn't just have one go out there and get that tree, a whole bunch of us got it."
Edit/Delete Message

simplyme 12-02-2009 08:34 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alogi (Post 373992)
First off the whole idea of christmas is pagan, along with
easter,valentines,saint patty etc.These holidays are of the Catholic cult.
They should not be observed by true Apostolics.One cannot mix pagan and Christian ,that is what has been done here through these holidays. The Tammuz tree is just part of agreater diabolical, scheeme to turn the true worshippers away from the true God Jesus Christ.By observing things of this world. That is pay homage to the creation,instead of the one who creates.
Brethren remove yourselves from Idoltry.Let us get back to the worship of the Jewish God'' Jesus Christ''
Shalom
Alogi

WAY TO GO, Alogi!
TRUTH will prevail!
i for one cannot fathom what prevents people from seeing something
so simple, so clear., although I have my hunch(es) :D

Bowas 12-03-2009 06:44 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop1 (Post 146307)
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?

JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6

(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:

(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.

(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.

(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.

(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.

(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.

:13loads

WHAT SAY YE ?


__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com

"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}


Bishop1
:girlpopcorn

Absolutely nothing to do with a Christmas tree. Agreed, much of it is of pagan origin, but to be an anti-pagan purist, you will most likely need to be a hermit or live in a controlled commune.
Please keep the words of Paul in mind...
1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, (Christmas trees) we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, (Christmas trees)we know that an idol(Christmas trees) is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol (Christmas trees) unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, (Have Christmas trees) are we the better; neither, if we eat not, (Will not have Christmas trees) are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of (Having Christmas trees)yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. (Have no Christmas trees)
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge (with Christmas trees) shall the weak brother perish, (without Christmas trees) for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat (Christmas trees) make my brother (with no Christmas trees)to offend, I will eat no flesh (have no Christmas trees)while the world standeth, lest I make my brother (with no Christmas trees) to offend.

NOTE: The inserted RED is not found in the original manuscripts, but was added merely to show a point to the readers.

Truthseeker 12-03-2009 06:52 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas (Post 842916)
Absolutely nothing to do with a Christmas tree. Agreed, much of it is of pagan origin, but to be an anti-pagan purist, you will most likely need to be a hermit or live in a controlled commune.
Please keep the words of Paul in mind...
1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, (Christmas trees) we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, (Christmas trees)we know that an idol(Christmas trees) is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol (Christmas trees) unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, (Have Christmas trees) are we the better; neither, if we eat not, (Will not have Christmas trees) are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of (Having Christmas trees)yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. (Have no Christmas trees)
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge (with Christmas trees) shall the weak brother perish, (without Christmas trees) for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat (Christmas trees) make my brother (with no Christmas trees)to offend, I will eat no flesh (have no Christmas trees)while the world standeth, lest I make my brother (with no Christmas trees) to offend.

NOTE: The inserted RED is not found in the original manuscripts, but was added merely to show a point to the readers.

eating meat has nothing to do with partaking with a customs of paganism.


1 John 5:21

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols(Christmas tree) . Amen.
KJV

Truthseeker 12-03-2009 06:55 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
2 Cor 6:16

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols ?(christmas trees) for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
KJV

Truthseeker 12-03-2009 06:56 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
1 Thess 1:9

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols(christmas trees) to serve the living and true God;
KJV

Bowas 12-03-2009 07:40 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker (Post 842919)
eating meat has nothing to do with partaking with a customs of paganism.


1 John 5:21

21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols(Christmas tree) . Amen.
KJV

Actually in these passages it is about idols and paganism.
Paul is trying to show the church, there are no such thing as any other god(s) and there is absolutely NO power in any of that stuff.

1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

By allowing oneself to reject certain practices (not immoral ones), one give a measure of power to it and some legitimacy to the non-existent gods.
there is no power in meat sacrificed to idols, there is no power in a Christmas tree. If it offends a person, do not do it, just as Paul recommends.

Truthseeker 12-03-2009 08:06 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas (Post 842937)
Actually in these passages it is about idols and paganism.
Paul is trying to show the church, there are no such thing as any other god(s) and there is absolutely NO power in any of that stuff.

1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

By allowing oneself to reject certain practices (not immoral ones), one give a measure of power to it and some legitimacy to the non-existent gods.
there is no power in meat sacrificed to idols, there is no power in a Christmas tree. If it offends a person, do not do it, just as Paul recommends.

Once again, eating meat is different then partaking with pagan customs. Idols are real and demons behind them.

Bowas 12-03-2009 09:55 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker (Post 842952)
Once again, eating meat is different then partaking with pagan customs. Idols are real and demons behind them.

To the people Paul was addressing, the eating of this meat was considered in the same manner you are referring to, which is why Paul tells them, 1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Paul does not give ANY power to or behind any idol. Why? Because there is no power in idols. Be it the idols Paul was referring to, or any other idol they or we may have, because there is only God. Paul was trying to show the people the powerlessness of idols to the point he would actually partake of that which was offered to idols knowing all the prayers they (pagans) may have made to these idols meant absoulely nothing, just empty words to a non-exsistent powerless god.
Paul claims idols are nothing. God is.

Jason B 12-03-2009 10:22 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Truth seeker, are you saying Jerimiah 10 pertaineth to Christmas Trees? Are you also saying there is a "christmas tree demon?!" :hmmm

Sam 12-03-2009 10:59 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason (Post 843034)
...Are you also saying there is a "christmas tree demon?!" :hmmm

just like the squirrel jumped out of the Christmas tree in Chevy Chase's home and threw the people into a panic, a christmas tree demon can jump out of a christmas tree in your home and throw the people into a panic.

Truthseeker 12-04-2009 04:36 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason (Post 843034)
Truth seeker, are you saying Jerimiah 10 pertaineth to Christmas Trees? Are you also saying there is a "christmas tree demon?!" :hmmm

Yep, the demon causes credit card debt and gluttony. :ursofunny

Truthseeker 12-04-2009 04:38 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas (Post 843019)
To the people Paul was addressing, the eating of this meat was considered in the same manner you are referring to, which is why Paul tells them, 1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Paul does not give ANY power to or behind any idol. Why? Because there is no power in idols. Be it the idols Paul was referring to, or any other idol they or we may have, because there is only God. Paul was trying to show the people the powerlessness of idols to the point he would actually partake of that which was offered to idols knowing all the prayers they (pagans) may have made to these idols meant absoulely nothing, just empty words to a non-exsistent powerless god.
Paul claims idols are nothing. God is.


Put up asteroth up in your home and you'll find out. :thumbsup

yes, eating meat offered up to a idol is harmless because the only God exist. Not the smae as partaking with idolatry.

pastorrick1959 12-04-2009 06:30 AM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
a spirit of paganism .

SOUNWORTHY 12-04-2009 03:47 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Bah humbug.......:foottap

Bowas 12-04-2009 06:50 PM

Re: " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker (Post 843059)
Put up asteroth up in your home and you'll find out. :thumbsup

yes, eating meat offered up to a idol is harmless because the only God exist. Not the smae as partaking with idolatry.

So are you saying, if I got an idol of Ashtoreth, Astarte Ashtar or as we call her, Easter ( carved wooden dead doll representing a mythical/non-existant goddess) something would happen because it has some sort of power? Huh?
And too, the eating of that meat WAS partaking of idolatry to the people back then. It was not just bringing the idolotrous into a home, but actually ingesting it into ones body. Which is worse?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.