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-   -   Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52712)

Steven Avery 01-14-2019 12:15 PM
Re: Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword (Post 1556608)
Look at the text of Matthew 27:9
The Greek says “Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet”
The Hebrew says “Then was fulfilled the word of Zechariah the prophet”,
which is actually correct according to Zechariah 11:12 “So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver”.
Look at the text in Matthew 16:16
The Greek has “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
The Hebrew has “You are the Messiah, that is, Kristo, the Son of the living God.” which is more revealing.
These are just a couple of examples of the differences between the Greek and the Hebrew. There are some other details which are different in Hebrew text than in the Greek text, which is an obvious indication that the Greek was a translation.
Putting aside that you do not understand textual transmission, and working with the middle ages anti-Christian Matthew:

The Hebrew you are quoting has for Matthew 28:19:

Quote:
Go and teach them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever
Is that your what you will put in your versions?
The Hebrew Matthew with no reference at all to baptism?

Hebrew Gospel of Matthew (1995)
https://books.google.com/books?id=4tdEBdVXg3AC&pg=PA194

Matthew 28:19 (AV)
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father,
and of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost:

Steven Avery 01-14-2019 12:48 PM
Re: Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta (Post 1556627)
The gospel was first preached to the Jews. But this fact has nothing to do with which language a book of the NT was written in.
You compared the Greek of Mt. 27:9 with the Hebrew. Exactly what Hebrew text are you referring to ??
Matthew 27:9 (AV)
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
And they took the thirty pieces of silver,
the price of him that was valued,
whom they of the children of Israel did value;

And I have a bit about this verse here:

Matthew 27:9 - fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet
http://www.purebibleforum.com/showth...my-the-prophet

Maurice Robinson discussed this in one paper, emphasizing that very few scribes changed the text, despite it being an apparently "difficult" reading. The middle ages Hebrew was one of the versions that smoothed the text.

See the url in the post above for the George Howard book (can not show the actual Matthew 27:9 page in Preview mode) and also:
http://www.onediscipletoanother.org/id6.html

Steven Avery 01-14-2019 01:02 PM
Re: Dionysius to Xystus on water baptism
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingZword (Post 1556609)
you have already passed judgement upon me "Nothing from you is trustworthy."
This is in the context of your Matthew 28:19 attempts at scholarship.

Nonetheless, I do enjoy following the actual leads you give. Today I discovered some interesting connections between the Shem Tob and the Sinaiticus manuscript (which was actually written in the 1800s.)

Esaias 01-15-2019 05:01 PM
Re: Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Avery (Post 1556669)
Matthew 27:9 (AV)
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
And they took the thirty pieces of silver,
the price of him that was valued,
whom they of the children of Israel did value;

And I have a bit about this verse here:

Matthew 27:9 - fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet
http://www.purebibleforum.com/showth...my-the-prophet

Maurice Robinson discussed this in one paper, emphasizing that very few scribes changed the text, despite it being an apparently "difficult" reading. The middle ages Hebrew was one of the versions that smoothed the text.

See the url in the post above for the George Howard book (can not show the actual Matthew 27:9 page in Preview mode) and also:
http://www.onediscipletoanother.org/id6.html
The thread on your forum was very informative. Thanks! :thumbsup

Steven Avery 01-18-2019 01:33 AM
Re: Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1556777)
The thread on your forum was very informative. Thanks! :thumbsup
yw.

And I have a thread with the ECW Ante-Nicene references to Matthew 28:19. These are from writers before Eusebius. Note that I just added Dionysius of Alexander, which came out of researching a post here.

Matthew 28:19 -baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
https://www.facebook.com/groups/pure...4408955650983/

And I do plan on adding more on that page.

FlamingZword 01-18-2019 08:50 PM
Re: Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending
 
Eusebius quotes the Church Father Dionysius of Alexandria (Hist. Eccl., Bk. 4. 23), who reports that his own epistles had been tampered with: “When my fellow Christians invited me to write letters to them I did so. These the devil's apostles have filled with tares, taking away some things and adding others. For them the woe is reserved. Small wonder then if some have dared to tamper even with the word of the Lord Himself, when they have conspired to mutilate my own humble efforts.”

FlamingZword 01-18-2019 08:55 PM
Re: Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending
 
The Golden Legend: The Life of Saint Calixtus has the following word: “Baptize me in the name of Jesu Christ, which hath taken me by the hand and lifted me up. Then came Calixtus and baptized her and her husband”.

FlamingZword 01-18-2019 08:55 PM
Re: Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending
 
The Golden Legend, The Life of Saint Laurence in another story has a similar passage: “Then Saint Laurence took water and said to him: All things in confession be washed. And when he had diligently informed him in the articles of the faith, and he confessed that he believed all, he shed water on his head, and baptized him in the name of Jesu Christ.”

FlamingZword 01-18-2019 08:56 PM
Re: Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending
 
The Didache mentions in one passage baptism in the name of the Lord. “Now no one should either eat or drink from your thanksgiving meal, but those who have been baptized into the Lord's name.” (εἰς ὄνομα κυρίου) (9:5) Aaron Milavec says: “Finally, as treated in an earlier chapter, baptism "in the name of the Lord" appears to be an earlier designation that predated the trinity of names in Did. 7:1 and 7:3.” The Didache (2003) by Professor Aaron Milavec p. 378.

FlamingZword 01-18-2019 08:56 PM
Re: Gospels of Matthew without Trinitarian ending
 
Irenaeus of Lyons in his book 3, writes “Peter says to them, "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Thus the apostles did not preach another God, or another Fullness; nor, that the Christ who suffered and rose again was one, while he who flew off on high was another, and remained impossible; but that there was one and the same God the Father, and Christ Jesus who rose from the dead…that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, the Judge of quick and dead, into whom he did also command them to be baptized for the remission of sins”


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