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-   -   The Remission is Different from Forgiveness Myth (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=18356)

SDG 09-06-2008 06:11 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584088)
Dan,

In many places throughout the Bible both Hebrew and Greek words have more than one meaning which would be nonsensical if the same English word was used for each. For example, the word "know" in KJV has two obviously different meanings. When Adam "knew" Eve, it was obviously different from "knowing" the Truth, no? When God "repented of the evil" He was about to do, you surely don't think He was about to engage in Satan's type of evil, do you? If I say the word "jam", am I talking about jelly, improvised music, paper stuck in a copier, or someone in a difficult situation?

Having said that, I haven't studied this issue out completely, so I must go into Berean mode on this one, but I'll get back to you.

No multiple meanings based on context here ...

Elder Blume ... hit this on the nose ....

It's a myth and you lose credibility keeping this notion.

You either decide to

1. accept forgiveness/remission happen at repentance
2. accept that forgiveness happens when one repents + is baptized

or

3. accept the first concept #1 and keep baptism as part of your baptismal regenerational model but not to cause forgiveness/remission of sin (as Elder Blume has).

Study it. Of course, doing so would be admitting believing a myth.

Ev. Duane Williams 09-06-2008 06:44 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 584150)
oh, in that case lets begin the debate on why the KJV translators used Holiness instead of Sanctification, they are both the same exact greek word... but have different understandings in english.

With the exception of where the word Hagiosune (and i know that off the top of my head) is used, almost every other verse on NT holiness could be reworded as Santification... imagine the legalistic teaching that would demolish in the process :)

holiness is a state

sanctification is a process


thats a much more fun debate than repentence and remittance (welcome to AFF btw, please stay and debate... you may become a convert to grace along the way)

I agree 100% about Holiness. I've been a convert to Grace for some time now. Real Grace. Not greasy grace.

Ev. Duane Williams 09-06-2008 06:47 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

SDG 09-06-2008 06:51 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584181)
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Hmmm ... are you in Berean mode or defend your institution mode?

Your 7-8 proof texts for baptismal regeneration have been amply refuted by many for generations and here also.

If you are going to quote scripture ... we all got a bible ... E.D.

If you have a point .... step up to the plate ... and watch for commas.

ronharvey 09-06-2008 07:01 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584088)
Dan,

In many places throughout the Bible both Hebrew and Greek words have more than one meaning which would be nonsensical if the same English word was used for each. For example, the word "know" in KJV has two obviously different meanings. When Adam "knew" Eve, it was obviously different from "knowing" the Truth, no? When God "repented of the evil" He was about to do, you surely don't think He was about to engage in Satan's type of evil, do you? If I say the word "jam", am I talking about jelly, improvised music, paper stuck in a copier, or someone in a difficult situation?

Having said that, I haven't studied this issue out completely, so I must go into Berean mode on this one, but I'll get back to you.

In Greek, the words mean the same thing, no matter where they appear.

What changes is the APPLICATION of the word within the context it is used.

English convolutes language and communications. That is why it is considered the easiest to speak yet the hardest to understand.

Ron

Praxeas 09-06-2008 07:03 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Did anyone read the article by Daniel Segraves?

SDG 09-06-2008 07:04 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 584187)
Did anyone read the article by Daniel Segraves?

No. Not really.

Can you give us the cliff notes. Please summarize

Ev. Duane Williams 09-06-2008 07:19 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 584182)
Hmmm ... are you in Berean mode or defend your institution mode?

Your 7-8 proof texts for baptismal regeneration have been amply refuted by many for generations and here also.

If you are going to quote scripture ... we all got a bible ... E.D.

If you have a point .... step up to the plate ... and watch for commas.

I simply quote a Scripture and send you into a frenzy? Forgive my hillbilly ignorance and inferior intellect compared with your otherworldly intelligence, but how do you "refute" this verse? Let me guess, there's another Greek lesson coming. Man, why couldn't you have been there to show those ignorant and unlearned translators of the KJV how to read Greek? Then we'd have an accurate Bible. Oh well, I guess we'll just keep depending on you to tell us what the Scriptures really say.

SDG 09-06-2008 07:20 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584195)
I simply quote a Scripture and send you into a frenzy? Forgive my hillbilly ignorance and inferior intellect compared with your otherworldly intelligence, but how do you "refute" this verse?

Don't have to refute God's Word ... it is what it is ... not what you think it says.

Your baptismal regenerationist interpretation is not the only plausible one.

Still waiting to know why you quoted it. What does it mean to you, E.D.?

ronharvey 09-06-2008 07:22 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584195)
I simply quote a Scripture and send you into a frenzy? Forgive my hillbilly ignorance and inferior intellect compared with your otherworldly intelligence, but how do you "refute" this verse? Let me guess, there's another Greek lesson coming. man, why couldn't you have been there to show those ignorant and unlearned translators of the KJV how to read Greek?

Frenzy? Is that what all this stuff on the floor is from?

Hand me the dust pan, I'll clean it up again....

Ron

Ev. Duane Williams 09-06-2008 07:35 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 584196)
Don't have to refute God's Word ... it is what it is ... not what you think it says.

Your baptismal regenerationist interpretation is not the only plausible one.

Still waiting to know why you quoted it. What does it mean to you, E.D.?


To me, it means just what it says.

Ev. Duane Williams 09-06-2008 07:36 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ronharvey (Post 584197)
Frenzy? Is that what all this stuff on the floor is from?

Hand me the dust pan, I'll clean it up again....

Ron

I don't get it.

SDG 09-06-2008 07:37 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584205)
To me, it means just what it says.

Likewise.

ronharvey 09-06-2008 08:10 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584207)
I don't get it.

Noun 1. frenzy
frenzy - state of violent mental agitation
delirium, hysteria, craze, fury
nympholepsy - a frenzy of emotion; as for something unattainable
manic disorder, mania - a mood disorder; an affective disorder in which the victim tends to respond excessively and sometimes violently
epidemic hysertia, mass hysteria - a condition in which a large group of people exhibit the same state of violent mental agitation

Things tend to get scattered in a FRENZY.

A simple play with your choice of word. :thebunny

Ron

Steve Epley 09-06-2008 09:19 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 583959)
Sir ... if l handed you a Spanish bible would you read it?

I can't teach your remission is different from forgiveness doctrine using a Spanish bible ... which I do use ... EVEN IF I TRIED TO ....

as for your attempt to dismiss the ability of thousands of bible students who have studied basic Greek terms and the unanimous consensus of theologians ... both expert and amateur ... including David Bernard and Daniel Segraves .... on a basic theological concept/word and it's meaning ...

shows your contempt and/or negligence for interpreting and rightly dividing the Word without bias ... and ultimately TRUTH, IMO.

Simply takes a Greek/English dictionary for this simple exercise, Elder ... not years of linguistic study.

I wonder if I can throw out this desperate barb next time you try to speak authoritatively about the Greek in regards to such words as kouros?

Just as I thought all of this the Greek and Hebrew says thus and thus and speak as though they are an authority and the man couldn't order lamb in a Greek resturant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What does the Spanish Bible have to do with anything????
:whistle:whistle:whistle

SDG 09-06-2008 09:23 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 584263)
Just as I thought all of this the Greek and Hebrew says thus and thus and speak as though they are an authority and the man couldn't order lamb in a Greek resturant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What does the Spanish Bible have to do with anything????
:whistle:whistle:whistle

Spanish ... a whole lot ...

It doesn't use the word remission ... just forgiveness/pardon in all instances ....

I would not be able to prove that sins are remitted at baptism using the texts your use from KJV. This would apply in the Greek too ... see my earlier posts in this thread for Spanish verses.

Using your logic Bernard, Segraves or any other sound theologian that are not fluent in said language would not be able to do so either ... yet they all come to the same conclusion ... hmmm.

I'm sure Elder Bernard could order lamb in Korean.

.... Will archive this lame cop-out when you post words in Greek.

Steve Epley 09-06-2008 09:28 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 584265)
Spanish ... a whole lot ...

It doesn't use the word remission ... just forgiveness/pardon in all instances ....

I would not be able to prove that sins are remitted at baptism using the texts your use from KJV. This would apply in the Greek too ... see my earlier posts in this thread for Spanish verses.

Using your logic Bernard, Segraves or any other sound theologian that are not fluent in said language would be able to do so either ... yet they all come to the same conclusion ... hmmm.

I'm sure Elder Bernard could order lamb in Korean.

Will archive this lame cop-out when you post words in Greek.

I had a public debate with 2 Yahweh guys and here they was sending everyone to Hell that do not pronounce the name in ancient Hebrewand these 2 Yahoos could not order a bagel in a Jewish deli. It just tires me all this Greek this and that when in truth they just quote someone who also may not read or speak Greek.

SDG 09-06-2008 09:30 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 584269)
I had a public debate with 2 Yahweh guys and here they was sending everyone to Hell that do not pronounce the name in ancient Hebrewand these 2 Yahoos could not order a bagel in a Jewish deli. It just tires me all this Greek this and that when in truth they just quote someone who also may not read or speak Greek.

And yet you do the same with the English KJV ... salvation hangs on your use of these two separate words that you have given distinct meanings when the apostles did not .... thus shutting the door on a whole segment of people because they don't speak Olde English ... Typical.

Sister Alvear 09-06-2008 09:30 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
I can order lamb in portuguese...does that count?

in portuguese it says pardon and in spanish it says pardon howver some translations say remission...

I AM IN THE FAR BACKLANDS AND THIS INTERNET IS SLOW...SO i did not read the thread...

Sister Alvear 09-06-2008 09:32 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
guess I am dumb is it not an interchangeable word?

SDG 09-06-2008 09:34 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear (Post 584273)
guess I am dumb is it not an interchangeable word?

Of course ... they are ....

No ... YOU ARE BRILLIANT.

Steve Epley 09-06-2008 09:54 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 584270)
And yet you do the same with the English KJV ... salvation hangs on your use of these two separate words that you have given distinct meanings when the apostles did not .... thus shutting the door on a whole segment of people because they don't speak Olde English ... Typical.

Dan you are incorrect IF I am wrong it only means sins are forgiven for the penitent at baptism. I have said they are forgiven at repentance and remitted at baptism a person is LOST without repentance and baptism so the end result is the same.

SDG 09-06-2008 09:57 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 584282)
Dan you are incorrect IF I am wrong it only means sins are forgiven for the penitent at baptism. I have said they are forgiven at repentance and remitted at baptism a person is LOST without repentance and baptism so the end result is the same.

And yet TimLan's assertion also holds true ... as in the end for most 3 steppers it doesn't matter if one repents and is baptized ... one is lost without glossilalia.

mizpeh 09-06-2008 10:01 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 584286)
And yet TimLan's assertion also holds true ... as in the end for most 3 steppers it doesn't matter if one repents and is baptized ... one is lost without glossilalia.

TimLan's assertion is ridiculous. He asserted that "three steppers" believe sins are forgiven when someone speaks in tongues!

Quote:

To a "three-stepper", your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues.

SDG 09-06-2008 10:01 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 584286)
And yet TimLan's assertion also holds true ... as in the end for most 3 steppers it doesn't matter if one repents and is baptized ... one is lost without glossilalia ....

And since most believe some don't get to step 3 or get hung up in New Birth limbo by not ... speaking in tongues .... since they have not truly repented ... they were never saved in the first place, right?

BTW .... first generation OPs (Urshan, Haywood, etc,) would shudder at your response.

SDG 09-06-2008 10:11 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 584288)
TimLan's assertion is ridiculous. He asserted that "three steppers" believe sins are forgiven when someone speaks in tongues!

He's not far from the truth ....

I think there is a notion that if one completes steps one and two but is hung up on not being able to speak in tongues and hence be born again/saved it's because you were never forgiven in the first place because your repentance wasn't "genuine" or full ...

Bernard makes this assertion in his New Birth book also ...

Quote:

Guidelines for Altar Work

It is important that those who pray with seekers at the altar have a correct understanding of repentance. Below are some practical guidelines based on our discussion.

(1) We should emphasize the moving of God's Spirit, not gimmicks or techniques. Special phrases or motions cannot substitute for repentance.

(2) We should attempt to discern where the seeker is spiritually. If he has not fully repented, we should not prematurely force him to express joy and expect the Spirit. Once he has repented, then we can encourage him to praise God and believe for the Spirit.

(3) We can put ourselves in the seeker's position and pray with him. This will show him how to pray and will help us pray with a burden.

(4) If the seeker does not seem to be making progress, there may be several problems, each of which requires a different approach. The problem may be a failure to understand what repentance is, a refusal to surrender everything to God, a lack of desire (hunger, desperation, sense of urgency), a lack of godly sorrow, or a lack of faith.

(5) We must not try to teach him how to speak in tongues. This sign will come as the Spirit gives utterance. Instead of stressing only that he should yield his tongue to God, we should stress that he should surrender his whole mind and life to God. When the seeker yields everything to God, concentrates totally on Him, and exercises faith, he will be able to yield his tongue to God.

(6) Let us avoid distracting practices such as shaking the seeker, pounding him, forcing him to do certain things, giving conflicting advice, or otherwise annoying him. People often repent and receive the Spirit in spite of, not because of, the altar workers.

If the seeker is sincere and ready to repent, he will receive the Spirit in a short time. If he does not, there is something lacking in his repentance or in his faith. In such a case, altar workers need to be spiritually sensitive and knowledgeable so they can help him overcome these difficulties.
I find this very troubling .... in one breathe he says repentance is a full turning and is must be genuine.... yet this turning is capable through totally concentrating on him (mental assent?) in an altar session then one's tongue will be yielded to the Spirit ... and one is quickened to life .... but still dead in sin if not water baptized????

I find even more puzzling if this person has not yet been fully forgiven ... having not been baptized ... but is eligible to be filled w/ God's Spirit indwelling them while still dead in sin or completely forgiven.

And how does an altar worker fully discern in a 10 minute prayer session where a seeker is ...spiritually ... This seems very odd. Also the task in placing this salvational moment of tongue talking on the shoulders of an altar worker in convincing a seeker that they are not fully repented and yet says that one receives the Spirit in spite of the workers ....

this is all .... well ....

The dilemmas presented here are too obvious. The assumptions "wrapped in spiritual discernment" made here can also be disastrous and/or discouraging to the new believer to the point where they can walk away thinking they are not "saveable" ....

This has been stated by many who did not speak in tongues "right away".

mizpeh 09-06-2008 10:31 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 584293)
He's not far from the truth ....

I think there is a notion that if one completes steps one and two but is hung up on not being able to speak in tongues and hence be born again/saved it's because you were never forgiven in the first place because your repentance wasn't "genuine" or full ...

Bernard makes this assertion in his New Birth book also ...



I find this very troubling .... in one breathe he says repentance is a full turning and is must be genuine.... yet this turning is capable through totally concentrating on him (mental assent?) in an altar session then one's tongue will be yielded to the Spirit ... and one is quickened to life .... but still dead in sin if not water baptized????

I find even more puzzling if this person has not yet been fully forgiven ... having not been baptized ... but is eligible to be filled w/ God's Spirit indwelling them while still dead in sin or completely forgiven.

And how does an altar worker fully discern in a 10 minute prayer session where a seeker is spiritually ... very odd.

The dilemmas presented here are too obvious. The assumptions made can be disastrous and/or discouraging to the new believer

Dan, it amazes me what conclusions you came up with from DB's article on altar work!

He never mentioned baptism.

He never mentioned being dead in sin or completely forgiven. You are putting your theology into what he is saying.

He never defines repentance.

You seem to be twisting DB's words into knots. Why don't you put some strings on DB and words in his mouth! Then you can make DB say whatever you want even "To a "three-stepper", your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues. " Since you agree with TimLan "He's not far from the truth ...." and are looking for ways to try and prove it.


DB seems to be saying that with true faith and repentance a person should expect to receive the Holy Spirit. That is what the Bible portrays in Acts 10.

SDG 09-06-2008 10:34 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 584301)
Dan, it amazes me what conclusions you came up with from DB's article on altar work!

He never mentioned baptism.

He never mentioned being dead in sin or completely forgiven. You are putting your theology into what he is saying.

He never defines repentance.

You seem to be twisting DB's words into knots. Why don't you put some strings on DB and words in his mouth! Then you can make DB say whatever you want even "To a "three-stepper", your sins are not forgiven until you've spoken in tongues. " Since you agree with TimLan "He's not far from the truth ...." and are looking for ways to try and prove it.


DB seems to be saying that with true faith and repentance a person should expect to receive the Holy Spirit. That is what the Bible portrays in Acts 10.

These guidelines Mizpeh come from his chapter on repentance (Chapter 5) ... where he also stated water baptism and repentance are required for complete forgiveness ... He also defines repentance.

Maybe sourcing the page and seeing that his thoughts are all linked in this chapter and book on the New Birth might mitigate some of your objections based on "frustration" w me adding to his thoughts?

You will notice these guidelines are in a subheading in his chapter that speaks of the things you say he did not speak of ...

His words on this topic ... need no twisting and it's all his theology ....


http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...al/New-Ch5.htm

Praxeas 09-06-2008 10:35 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 584282)
Dan you are incorrect IF I am wrong it only means sins are forgiven for the penitent at baptism. I have said they are forgiven at repentance and remitted at baptism a person is LOST without repentance and baptism so the end result is the same.

Elder, can you explain the difference between forgiven and remitted and explain why the greek word for remission is the same for forgiveness? Shouldn't they be two different words?

mizpeh 09-06-2008 10:39 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 584306)
Elder, can you explain the difference between forgiven and remitted and explain why the greek word for remission is the same for forgiveness? Shouldn't they be two different words?

Prax, can't a word have more than one meaning based on context?

SDG 09-06-2008 10:41 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 584307)
Prax, can't a word have more than one meaning based on context?

Of course it can ... and it happens all the time .... with words w/ multiple meanings ... i.e. "jam", "set", etc.

but the writers did not express this separation contextually .... as the word does not the multiple distinct meanings some try to force into it.

Trying to skirt around this issue .... really hurts any intellectual honesty in the broader scope of a soteriological debate.

Praxeas 09-06-2008 10:46 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Remission according to dictionary.com
1.the act of remitting. 2.pardon; forgiveness, as of sins or offenses. 3.abatement or diminution, as of diligence, labor, intensity, etc. 4.the relinquishment of a payment, obligation, etc. 5.Medicine/Medical. a.a temporary or permanent decrease or subsidence of manifestations of a disease. b.a period during which such a decrease or subsidence occurs: The patient's leukemia was in remission.

Praxeas 09-06-2008 10:46 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Thayers
Thayer Definition:
1) release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty

SDG 09-07-2008 08:18 AM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Bump

freeatlast 09-07-2008 06:12 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Seems no one wants to post a reply, backed by solid scripture, that you are wrong Dan.

That would lead me to believe our OP doctrine that forgivness only happens at water baptism ( and then only if you speak in tongues ) is not supported by by proper exegesis of the scripture.

Felicity 09-07-2008 06:34 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Just jumping in here to say........

Don't know about the rest of you, but my sins were forgiven and remitted at repentance and they keep getting forgiven/remitted every time I've asked since the first time. And thank God for that! :bliss

freeatlast 09-07-2008 06:40 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 584608)
Just jumping in here to say........

Don't know about the rest of you, but my sins were forgiven at repentance and they keep getting forgiven every time I've asked since the first time. And thank God for that! :bliss

Hey , you old one stepper...good to see you back around these parts.

Felicity 09-07-2008 06:49 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 584610)
Hey , you old one stepper...good to see you back around these parts.

Watch out who you're calling "OLD", buddy. :club Hehe!

I believe in the essentiality of all 3 'steps'! Never ever doubt that! :scripture

:)

Rhoni 09-07-2008 07:08 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 584608)
Just jumping in here to say........

Don't know about the rest of you, but my sins were forgiven and remitted at repentance and they keep getting forgiven/remitted every time I've asked since the first time. And thank God for that! :bliss

It doesn't make sense that God would forgive us and yet hold that sin against us until baptism which for many of us was years after we first repented. And if it's true that our sin isn't remitted until baptism, then multitudes of trinitarian Christians are still unregenerated sinners even though they've been Spirit filled. Because according to many OPs, their baptism isn't valid or recognized by God since they weren't baptized in the name of Jesus.

Something is wrong with this picture.

To me, if your sin isn't remitted then forgiveness is basically useless. What good is forgiveness if the record of sin is still being held against you?


Good post Felicity and it is scripturally sound.

Rhoni 09-07-2008 07:11 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 584612)
I edited my post. You caught it before I finished the edit.

Watch out who you're calling "OLD", buddy. :club Hehe!

I believe in the essentiality of all 3 steps! Never ever doubt that! :scripture

:)

Felicity,

While I appreciate your decision to go back to the UPCI way of life, you were not/have not always posted the essentiality of all three steps. If my memory serves me correctly you were raised PCI and until re-uniting with UPCI did not believe in the essentiality of all three steps. Correct me if you think I misunderstood your posts for the past 5+ years.

Blessings, Rhoni


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