Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   The D.A.'s Office (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65)
-   -   DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity, (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=28450)

Apocrypha 01-18-2010 06:31 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother David (Post 867044)
"Apostolic Identity... it was good enough for the Apostles of the mid to later half of the Twentieth Century - it's good enough for you!

Except that we now ask the ladies to shave their legs."

Ohh.. i likey.. but what about poor sister Goss or Haneys grandma who wore jewelery whats their identity?

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 06:56 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 867042)
You want to keep it strictly scripture or can we open it up to the ante-nicene church fathers?

If just scripture.. Galatians 2:11

New International Version (©1984)
When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.
New Living Translation (©2007)
But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

International Standard Version (©2008)
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly wrong.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
When Cephas came to Antioch, I had to openly oppose him because he was completely wrong.

King James Bible
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Stood blamed for what?????????? Whats the scripture referring to?




How about we do this......

Galations 2:11-13
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 06:57 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
I think it was eating with Gentiles......Correct?

Sam 01-18-2010 06:57 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 867045)
Ohh.. i likey.. but what about poor sister Goss or Haneys grandma who wore jewelery whats their identity?

jezebels in the attire of a harlot

DAII 01-18-2010 07:05 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam (Post 867060)
jezebels in the attire of a harlot

Wow ... that's strong .... Yowser.

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...31_5111368.jpg

DAII 01-18-2010 07:07 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 867042)
You want to keep it strictly scripture or can we open it up to the ante-nicene church fathers?

If just scripture.. Galatians 2:11

New International Version (©1984)
When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.
New Living Translation (©2007)
But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

International Standard Version (©2008)
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly wrong.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
When Cephas came to Antioch, I had to openly oppose him because he was completely wrong.

King James Bible
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Deut ... reminds me of a forum troll we used to have here early when AFF started in 2007 ... THE SWORDSMAN ...

Do y'alll remember him?

He'd come on and valiantly copy and paste Scriptures he thought made his point or proved his false doctrine... http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...php/t-669.html

all without a license to carry.

Love me some drive-by theology.

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 07:14 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 867065)
Deut ... reminds me of a forum troll we used to have here early when AFF started in 2007 ... THE SWORDSMAN ...

Do y'alll remember him?

He'd come on and valiantly copy and paste Scriptures he thought made his point or proved his false doctrine... http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...php/t-669.html

all without a license to carry.

Love me some drive-by theology.

Once again, you RANT and you RAMBLE.....But no Bible. You're full of opinions, but I DARE you to give me scripture to refute it! I'll be waiting, Sir.

Jeffrey 01-18-2010 07:16 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 867064)

If someone has the resources, a photo album of pioneers that break the AI rules would be helpful to stop the ignorance rebuttals of "ancient landmarks" to mean such contemporary inventions.

This should also include Ethel Goss. Who else? Who has the resources??

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 07:17 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Give me some bible.......kind sir!

Jeffrey 01-18-2010 07:17 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867072)
Give me some bible.......kind sir!

Bible for what topic?

DAII 01-18-2010 07:18 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey (Post 867071)
If someone has the resources, a photo album of pioneers that break the AI rules would be helpful to stop the ignorance rebuttals of "ancient landmarks" to mean such contemporary inventions.

This should also include Ethel Goss. Who else? Who has the resources??

I think I will email Ruth, her daughter. to see if she could make one available.

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 07:19 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
@DAII: You are full of rhetoric. Please PROVIDE some of GOD's WORD to back your argument to ANYTHING you've said. PLEASE. Dont be cowardly.

Jeffrey 01-18-2010 07:20 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 867074)
I think I will email Ruth, her daughter. to see if she could make one available.

That would be GREAT.

It's not the end-all on the debate over the issues OP's love, but it certainly takes the fire out of the belly.

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 07:20 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey (Post 867073)
Bible for what topic?

You denounce the Apostolic doctrine....so give me scriptures to refute it!
Surely you are not that slow.

DAII 01-18-2010 07:21 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
The Grays, Apostolic missionaries to Japan

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...32_5358611.jpg

DAII 01-18-2010 07:23 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...33_3826663.jpg

For the record.

DAII 01-18-2010 07:24 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
WAS WONDERING WHEN WE RETURN TO THE OLD LANDMARKS?

"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years." ---

Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss)

DAII 01-18-2010 07:27 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867077)
You denounce the Apostolic doctrine....so give me scriptures to refute it!
Surely you are not that slow.

Manny or Bob is that you?
Identify, thyself.

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 07:31 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 867081)
Manny or Bob is that you?
Identify, thyself.

Thats what I thought. You are childish and immature. You dont know BIBLE. The scripture disgruntles you. You are nothing but an assassin. You have no love and you are a liar. You "spew" garbage to insult. You couldn't debate my 5 year old over BIBLE Doctrine. Thats pitiful.

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 07:35 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
You and your friends have a wonderful time. I'll pray for you, Because it's obvious that you dont.

Admin 01-18-2010 08:11 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867082)
Thats what I thought. You are childish and immature. You dont know BIBLE. The scripture disgruntles you. You are nothing but an assassin. You have no love and you are a liar. You "spew" garbage to insult. You couldn't debate my 5 year old over BIBLE Doctrine. Thats pitiful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867084)
You and your friends have a wonderful time. I'll pray for you, Because it's obvious that you dont.

Did you bother to read our rules?

Jason B 01-18-2010 08:23 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 866616)
D. Wright do you agree with that the 3 greatest challenges facing the UPCI in North America is:

1. Maintain Apostolic Identity
2. Maintain Apostolic Unity
3. Get more exposure

??????

When did unity get the "apostolic" qualifier?

Maintain? Is that where there are 5,6, or 10 apostolic churches in a given city who don't fellowship one another? Maybe I'm getting the cart before the horse, but I thought there had to BE UNITY, before it could be maintained.
:friend

Sam 01-18-2010 08:29 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo (Post 867099)
Maintain? Is that where there are 5,6, or 10 apostolic churches in a given city who don't fellowship one another? Maybe I'm getting the cart before the horse, but I thought there had to BE UNITY, before it could be maintained.
:friend

and they would be "identified" as Apostolic by the same identifier Jesus suggested in John 13:34-35

Dedicated Mind 01-18-2010 08:30 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 867081)
Manny or Bob is that you?
Identify, thyself.

Its EA, he's back.

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 09:59 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin (Post 867093)
Did you bother to read our rules?

Yeah I did and DAII has broken every one of them......
Do I need to point it out?

Justin 01-18-2010 10:01 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 867078)
The Grays, Apostolic missionaries to Japan

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...32_5358611.jpg

Do you have a date for this?

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 10:11 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
No..... he just throws up pictures like its the gospel!

RandyWayne 01-18-2010 10:14 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Well Sam IS pretty good with Photoshop......

DeuteronomyCh8 01-18-2010 10:23 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 867139)
Well Sam IS pretty good with Photoshop......

I'm not disputing that the picture is "authentic". But....this "proves" what?

He has a beard? And...............

Jason B 01-18-2010 10:27 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867136)
No..... he just throws up pictures like its the gospel!

He gave a date for Brother Kenneth Haney's grandmother, you know the picture with a necklace on in 1933. Also a quote from Howard Goss' wife. Maybe you'd like to comment on either of those posts? I know I'd be interested in what you think.

Jason B 01-18-2010 10:28 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867144)
He has a beard? And...............

Everyone knows if you have a beard you going to bust hell wide open.

The same "everyone" don't know or ignore that Jesus had a beard. :heeheehee

Sam 01-18-2010 11:09 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin (Post 867129)
Do you have a date for this?

That picture is on page 89 of a biography of Clyde Haney written by his wife Olive (Gray) Haney. The girl in the picture is Olive and the boy is her brother David Gray. The title under the picture says, "Passport picture. Frank and Mary Gray with David and Olive returning to states (1919)"

Jeffrey 01-19-2010 01:09 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867077)
You denounce the Apostolic doctrine....so give me scriptures to refute it!
Surely you are not that slow.

Whoa, are you always this rude?

You start off with a false presupposition. Care to start over?

Jeffrey 01-19-2010 01:10 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII (Post 867079)

Wow. I have this book. Just haven't finished it. Thanks for the quote.

pelathais 01-19-2010 04:44 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8 (Post 867144)
I'm not disputing that the picture is "authentic". But....this "proves" what?

He has a beard? And...............

It proves that our forebears in the Apostolic Faith did not have the "holiness standards" that exist in some churches today and that the attempt by some to enforce some sort of ad hoc "Apostolic Identity" based upon those "standards" has no historical basis in fact.

In other words, we're all being asked to accept some things that were just invented in the post WW2 years at the cost of "Apostolic Unity" and at the cost of the Scripture.

John Atkinson 01-19-2010 06:11 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
My only observation is this:
If someone is in the UPCI and they don't like it they can vote with their feet.

If someone is not in the UPCI what does it matter? If they want to do the whole "Apostolic Identity" thing ... so what? It is their org, so they can. Doesn't bother me none as I am not in the club.

pelathais 01-19-2010 06:51 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Atkinson (Post 867175)
My only observation is this:
If someone is in the UPCI and they don't like it they can vote with their feet.

If someone is not in the UPCI what does it matter? If they want to do the whole "Apostolic Identity" thing ... so what? It is their org, so they can. Doesn't bother me none as I am not in the club.

My own family members and my children are deeply influenced by what the UPC says and does. A couple of years back I brought up the whole "Holy Magic Hair" thing with my daughter.

"What's that?" she asked.

I explained the gist of the idea behind HMH and she shocked me by responding, "But that's what I believe."

No way! But, there it was in my own home. It is important that we stand up to the historical revisionism, the false doctrine and the "gospel" that is often preached that excludes Calvary and the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

My daughter was used by "headquarters" recently in one of their "Apostolic Identity" promotions. I was troubled by the idea going in. It was part of the Youth Dept's scheme to overcome the silly accusations that followed in the wake of the Youth Congress in 2007.

Can you imagine? With my track record, my kids are still the paradigm of "Apostolic Identity?"

I don't really have a problem with it and my daughter had a great time. But I am still going to add my two cent's worth and reach out to the org to maintain some semblance of balance.

RandyWayne 01-19-2010 08:25 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother David (Post 867183)
My own family members and my children are deeply influenced by what the UPC says and does. A couple of years back I brought up the whole "Holy Magic Hair" thing with my daughter.

"What's that?" she asked.

I explained the gist of the idea behind HMH and she shocked me by responding, "But that's what I believe."

No way! But, there it was in my own home. It is important that we stand up to the historical revisionism, the false doctrine and the "gospel" that is often preached that excludes Calvary and the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

My daughter was used by "headquarters" recently in one of their "Apostolic Identity" promotions. I was troubled by the idea going in. It was part of the Youth Dept's scheme to overcome the silly accusations that followed in the wake of the Youth Congress in 2007.

Can you imagine? With my track record, my kids are still the paradigm of "Apostolic Identity?"

I don't really have a problem with it and my daughter had a great time. But I am still going to add my two cent's worth and reach out to the org to maintain some semblance of balance.

I have to admit, it IS a bit hard to believe. LOL

Do your family members simply go too far back in UPC tradition? Or is it the case of a Svengali pastor?

freeatlast 01-19-2010 08:39 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Everytime I see "AI" in refering to "apostolic indentity" it makes me think of a title to a movie that was called AI..........

.......... Artificial Inteligence

pelathais 01-19-2010 09:01 AM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 867204)
I have to admit, it IS a bit hard to believe. LOL

Do your family members simply go too far back in UPC tradition? Or is it the case of a Svengali pastor?

Yes to the first and no to the second. All of us have always had the attitude that we wanted to be humble and under proper submission to Scriptural authority.

But some have been like water when it came to finding a path through life - the course of least resistance. They have no certain principles based upon the Bible - just a desire to get along with the group. This opens them up to a lot of manipulation.

One example is my father-in-law. He and I walked into the General Conference business meeting in 1992 with him laughing off the whole idea that the Westberg Resolution would even be allowed to come to a vote. He is and at the time was an ardent "Three Stepper" but his zeal was as one of the "converted" due to his PCI and PAW family background.

After the "99%" misstatement was made from the platform he jumped right up and instantly became a supporter of the Resolution. I have to admit that at the time I too was swayed to go along with it. That's just how we were. If it's "official" from our elders then we will graciously submit.

In time however, I began to see how this "attitude of servitude" was being exploited by the more extreme elements within the movement, even for very base purposes at times.

We are not doing the fellowship nor the church any service by always ducking our heads and never asking the tough questions. For the Oneness movement to thrive we need to have a body of powerful individuals. The current status quo in so many areas where we see leadership wracked by poor esteem issues which they then take out on a silent and submissive flock will only lead to our demise.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.