Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   The D.A.'s Office (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65)
-   -   DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity, (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=28450)

RandyWayne 01-20-2010 02:08 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867837)
That is probably true to some extent, but what I am seeing is that many are just going with their own convictions.

The women that don't have a problem with long hair or wearing a dress are dressing their personal convictions on those lines. I think MissBratt has said that as well.

One example would be that their hair is long, but they are trimming it. Simply because the scripture isn't clear enough on that. My Son-in-law sports a beard and is totally accepted. No one cares or thinks its unscriptural.

The thing is, I haven't seen some of the stances against many things, in the places that I have lived, for a very long time. I guess it's location, location, location.

Here is the perfect example. Your Son-in-law would be on a fast track to hell with that beard, at least in Epley's church (according to Epley). And your right, the gateway to heaven is a maze who's twisting corridors and dead ends vary by location location location.

rgcraig 01-20-2010 02:10 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867837)
That is probably true to some extent, but what I am seeing is that many are just going with their own convictions.

The women that don't have a problem with long hair or wearing a dress are dressing their personal convictions on those lines. I think MissBratt has said that as well.

One example would be that their hair is long, but they are trimming it. Simply because the scripture isn't clear enough on that. My Son-in-law sports a beard and is totally accepted. No one cares or thinks its unscriptural.

The thing is, I haven't seen some of the stances against many things, in the places that I have lived, for a very long time. I guess it's location, location, location.

Here are a few of my stances:

I don't dress provocatively - I dress modest.
I don't drink or go to bars to hang out.
I don't gossip or backbite.
I don't have a haughty or better than you attitude.
I don't judge others.
I go with my convictions that COME from God - - they aren't really mine.

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 02:11 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 867841)
Here is the perfect example. Your Son-in-law would be on a fast track to hell with that beard, at least in Epley's church (according to Epley). And your right, the gateway to heaven is a maze who's twisting corridors and dead ends vary by location location location.

Brother Kilgore has always stated that not every person will have the same convictions and we shouldn't force our on others. I think we are just getting that. At least they are in our area.

rgcraig 01-20-2010 02:12 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne (Post 867841)
Here is the perfect example. Your Son-in-law would be on a fast track to hell with that beard, at least in Epley's church (according to Epley). And your right, the gateway to heaven is a maze who's twisting corridors and dead ends vary by location location location.

It is location for sure. Where her son is located is more acceptable of beards.

RandyWayne 01-20-2010 02:15 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 867844)
Here are a few of my stances:

I don't dress provocatively - I dress modest.
I don't drink or go to bars to hang out.
I don't gossip or backbite.
I don't have a haughty or better than you attitude.
I don't judge others.
I go with my convictions that COME from God - - they aren't really mine.

I have to agree:

I don't dress provocatively either. I ALWAYS at least wear swimming trunks -and trust me, I am NOT provocative in swim trunks, at least not anymore.

I stopped going to bars and clubs to hang out when I met my wife.

I know I shouldn't gossip, but sometimes do.

I know I shouldn't have a haughty attitude, but sometimes I do.

I know I shouldn't judge others but find that i do far too often.

I know God's convictions are better then mine, but it is very hard to tell the difference.

I occasionally think of how much EASIER life would be if I had a good clothesline preacher that I could line up with! A simple easy-to-follow checklist, and BAM!, sal-vation!

freeatlast 01-20-2010 02:16 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867837)
That is probably true to some extent, but what I am seeing is that many are just going with their own convictions.

The women that don't have a problem with long hair or wearing a dress are dressing their personal convictions on those lines. I think MissBratt has said that as well.

One example would be that their hair is long, but they are trimming it. Simply because the scripture isn't clear enough on that. My Son-in-law sports a beard and is totally accepted. No one cares or thinks its unscriptural.

The thing is, I haven't seen some of the stances against many things, in the places that I have lived, for a very long time. I guess it's location, location, location.

At his church, but let him try to be a part of Epleys church. If he wanted to do any more than be a visitor he be forced to shave that ungodly mess of his face.

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 02:20 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 867844)
Here are a few of my stances:

I don't dress provocatively - I dress modest.
I don't drink or go to bars to hang out.
I don't gossip or backbite.
I don't have a haughty or better than you attitude.
I don't judge others.
I go with my convictions that COME from God - - they aren't really mine.

That's good, Renda. The thing is that many women in the UPC (the women I am acquainted with) think that dresses are appropriate for a woman and have no problem with that. They also see the scriptures saying that long hair is our glory (dignity) and don't want to change that. So, the way they dress, (slits, sleeves, etc.) is a personal conviction.

All the others character traits you mentioned are basic Christian principles, but you won't find every Christian following them, all the time, in any organization. People are just people.

rgcraig 01-20-2010 02:20 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867837)
That is probably true to some extent, but what I am seeing is that many are just going with their own convictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867845)
Brother Kilgore has always stated that not every person will have the same convictions and we shouldn't force our on others. I think we are just getting that. At least they are in our area.

These two statements aren't jiving with me.

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 02:21 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 867849)
At his church, but let him try to be a part of Epleys church. If he wanted to do any more than be a visitor he be forced to shave that ungodly mess of his face.

Yes, but you see - we are not talking about Epley, and really shouldn't be talking about anyone. It's being a busybody in other men's matters, IMO.

rgcraig 01-20-2010 02:23 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867851)
That's good, Renda. The thing is that many women in the UPC (the women I am acquainted with) think that dresses are appropriate for a woman and have no problem with that. They also see the scriptures saying that long hair is our glory (dignity) and don't want to change that. So, the way they dress, (slits, sleeves, etc.) is a personal conviction.

All the others character traits you mentioned are basic Christian principles, but you won't find every Christian following them, all the time, in any organization. People are just people.

That's why I don't push wearing slacks on anyone - - if their conviction is wearing dresses all the time, then that's fine with me. However, they think I'm going to hell for wearing slacks. SINCE, that is NOT a Biblical principle and I feel it's okay between God and I that I do wear slacks - - why is it okay to push their "personal" conviction on me?

Jeffrey 01-20-2010 02:27 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Romans 14 principle.

To the poster, yes we agree on certain standards:

Love neighbor, love God (the Jesus creed)
Be Honest
Be kind
Be modest
Show moderation

In all things, seek the work of the Spirit in sanctification to mature us. Be sensitive and open to God's promptings, not as illegitimate children with no father.

missourimary 01-20-2010 02:33 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Why don't we all, as Apostolics, just love each other the way we are, and live what we believe is right?

I don't remember Jesus telling anyone to change their clothes before He would heal them or eat with them. One parable about clothes-about the wedding garments. And I'll say again, I have a uc background but I'm still saying this. I'm not defending my stance.

But there is this, and it's been at the back of my mind for a while:

Luke 9
49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Mark 9
38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40For he that is not against us is on our part.
41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

dizzyde 01-20-2010 02:35 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867837)
That is probably true to some extent, but what I am seeing is that many are just going with their own convictions.

The women that don't have a problem with long hair or wearing a dress are dressing their personal convictions on those lines. I think MissBratt has said that as well.

One example would be that their hair is long, but they are trimming it. Simply because the scripture isn't clear enough on that. My Son-in-law sports a beard and is totally accepted. No one cares or thinks its unscriptural.

The thing is, I haven't seen some of the stances against many things, in the places that I have lived, for a very long time. I guess it's location, location, location.

It DEFINITELY is. 100%

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 02:36 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 867856)
That's why I don't push wearing slacks on anyone - - if their conviction is wearing dresses all the time, then that's fine with me. However, they think I'm going to hell for wearing slacks. SINCE, that is NOT a Biblical principle and I feel it's okay between God and I that I do wear slacks - - why is it okay to push their "personal" conviction on me?

Right, we shouldn't push our convictions on others.

I do think the org, and I don't usually elaborate on these issues either way aside from strictly debating scripture, is that they must refine the language of "it's not a heaven or hell issue" but then not use someone in a leadership position if someone chooses to do those things that are not supposed to be heaven or hell. That was a long sentence! LOL!

There are platform standards which any church is welcome to hold and has the right to demand of it's members.

But pushing a compliance while saying it is not a heaven or hell issue is not going to work and is confusing. We will have to iron that one out.

I still believe we are in a transition and not fully transitioned that pants are visually acceptable for a women. Still, at the grocery store, you get compliments on dress and hair. It's still a perception, IMO. I think the UPCI isn't sure they want to go there. I mean walk away from that.

For instance, in the clip that Daniel provided, DKB comments, and it has been my observation as well, that many people are attending mainstream churches, but not living up to full Christian standards of living. My Dentist from Burma made the same observation to me after visiting a huge Charismatic church in our area. She was very turned off and never went back. So, on our part, we see this and wonder if we will go that way.

I believe that Benincasa made the comment, on another thread, that people coming from other countries backslide when they live here. It is showing that the American churches, as a whole, are lacking.

I just received an update from Focus on the Family who is staging some meeting about our Youth that are not attending church in this country. They are not speaking of the UPCI, but the church at large. Something is desperately wrong - all they way around.

*AQuietPlace* 01-20-2010 02:37 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Atkinson (Post 867832)

God didn't give us his Spirit to lead and guide us if all we needed was another book of laws. Nor did he call and raise up the ministry as a law-making body.

:thumbsup

freeatlast 01-20-2010 02:38 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867829)

Now, the question - What would those opposing the UPCI have us do? Walk away from the will of God or obey His direction - "Stay where you are and see it through"? With "standards" and other trappings that some disagree with and some things we are not in total agreement, He says to stay.



?[/B]

Sorry there PO, didn't mean to be a "busybody"

I thought there was a bit of discussion about standards and how they vary from district to district.

Br "E"s a prime example of how ones convctions can become non biblical man made standards, enforced as though God penned the scripture that some think is in the bible. "Men be thou clean shaven" Steve 3:16

John Atkinson 01-20-2010 02:39 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 867860)
Why don't we all, as Apostolics, just love each other the way we are, and live what we believe is right?

If you look at the diversity on AFF, and the fact that for the most part everyone gets along, even though they may disagree, even vehemently, very few posters are ever outwardly hateful here.

I'd have to say we really aren't doing too bad a job of it.

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 02:43 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 867860)
Why don't we all, as Apostolics, just love each other the way we are, and live what we believe is right?

I don't remember Jesus telling anyone to change their clothes before He would heal them or eat with them. One parable about clothes-about the wedding garments. And I'll say again, I have a uc background but I'm still saying this. I'm not defending my stance.

But there is this, and it's been at the back of my mind for a while:

Luke 9
49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Mark 9
38And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40For he that is not against us is on our part.
41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Amen, but I believe that people feel they've been hurt and want to voice that. It would not be the way I would handle it, but to each his own I suppose.

I believe that everything I go through is a learning experience and there is no need to continue to complain. It would mean, to me, that I am lacking faith. And it would mean, to me, that I am not listening to God who always guides and comforts.

missourimary 01-20-2010 02:45 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
I haven't seen anyone-OP or denominal-that has a good answer that has been put into action and really worked.

At some point we may have to consider whether we would prefer people who disagree with us to not worship any god at all, or to worship the same one God in different ways...

missourimary 01-20-2010 02:47 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Atkinson (Post 867867)
If you look at the diversity on AFF, and the fact that for the most part everyone gets along, even though they may disagree, even vehemently, very few posters are ever outwardly hateful here.

I'd have to say we really aren't doing too bad a job of it.

Yes, overall, I'd say that AFF is doing a much better job of that than many people I've met personally. Maybe those I've met personally are on the fringe. I hope so.

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 02:48 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 867866)
Sorry there PO, didn't mean to be a "busybody"

I thought there was a bit of discussion about standards and how they vary from district to district.

Br "E"s a prime example of how ones convctions can become non biblical man made standards, enforced as though God penned the scripture that some think is in the bible. "Men be thou clean shaven" Steve 3:16

I'm sorry. After I hit submit I thought it would come across that way. LOL! I was just wanting to express how I feel and did not mean to target you being a "busybody".

I suppose you are right. In some discussions it might be necessary to bring out an example. I think, at times, it may not be possible to avoid that.

missourimary 01-20-2010 02:50 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867868)
Amen, but I believe that people feel they've been hurt and want to voice that. It would not be the way I would handle it, but to each his own I suppose.

I believe that everything I go through is a learning experience and there is no need to continue to complain. It would mean, to me, that I am lacking faith. And it would mean, to me, that I am not listening to God who always guides and comforts.

Sometimes people who are hurt need to talk to work through their hurt. Sometimes others need to know they aren't the only ones who have been hurt-talking about it can become part of that "great cloud of witnesses" if kept positive.
There are some people that have been so deeply hurt that they don't trust God. Been there. If others hadn't shared with me how they got through it, and been compassionate and prayerful, I'd have left God long ago.

I know you know that, not disputing your post, just adding a bit. :winkgrin

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 02:56 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 867873)
Sometimes people who are hurt need to talk to work through their hurt. Sometimes others need to know they aren't the only ones who have been hurt-talking about it can become part of that "great cloud of witnesses" if kept positive.
There are some people that have been so deeply hurt that they don't trust God. Been there. If others hadn't shared with me how they got through it, and been compassionate and prayerful, I'd have left God long ago.

I know you know that, not disputing your post, just adding a bit. :winkgrin

I agree with what you are saying. I would only be against the "enabler". The person allowing the hurt to be voiced and gnawed on like a bone. That helps no one.

freeatlast 01-20-2010 02:58 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867872)
I'm sorry. After I hit submit I thought it would come across that way. LOL! I was just wanting to express how I feel and did not mean to target you being a "busybody".

I suppose you are right. In some discussions it might be necessary to bring out an example. I think, at times, it may not be possible to avoid that.

You're OK PO...still love ya. ;-)

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 02:59 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by freeatlast (Post 867879)
You're OK PO...still love ya. ;-)

I'm very grateful for that, Free! :friend

jasites 01-20-2010 03:03 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Atkinson (Post 867832)
I think everyone here believes in modesty, but even in the ranks of the UPCI standards vary so much from church to church that it seems that even they don't have a consistent agreement. This is because many of them are just pastoral whims, and UPC Pastor A and UPC Pastor B have different degrees of whimsicality.

As for the line drawn and the bar raised or lowered, that is as much a personal conviction issue with regards to a persons relationship with Jesus. Not a dictate from a pastor. We draw the line as we from the heart grow in grace.

Does that muzzle the preacher. Nope. There is a whole bible filled with biblical principles from cover to cover to preach from. We grow as learn to apply those principles and that covers a whole lot more than wardrobe.

God didn't give us his Spirit to lead and guide us if all we needed was another book of laws. Nor did he call and raise up the ministry as a law-making body. Anyone can line up to a dress code...muslims do it everyday.

My biggest issue with "standards" is how they are used to "Draw the line, set the bar" by people, often through misuse and misinterpretation of the Word, and then used to benchmark other believers and reject them based on externals. It foments an elitist mentality and attitude of "We got it and they don't". Something I believe the Lord finds abhorrent.

In passing let me mention Deuteronomy 22, as this was discussed. It isn't a buffet table where one can just grab the verse that seems to support their position, and discount the rest.

Good points!

Here's where I'm at:
I think that everyone can agree on the fact the first churches (epistles) without doubt laid down a number of dress codes. Now with that knowledge, do we:
1 - Try to decipher these dress codes and apply them today?
2 - Try to understand the thought process used in creating these dress codes and apply this process to a 21st Century application?

I think the UPCI has done a little bit of both which has yielded some uncanny results (no beards, open-toed shoes, etc.)

But what I don't know that I can live with is the idea that dress standards are to only be a personal conviction. That is just not supported in the Bible and I would venture to say that even the most open-minded member on here would have some issues if their respective platform staff showed up Sun. morning with purple hair, tattoo's, tongue piercing etc. And as result feel that something should be done or said. ...be honest!

Bottom line is:
I think everyone, (Apostolic's, Baptist's, Catholic's etc.) has a line that they feel should be drawn. I don't see eye-to-eye with every issue, but instead of just tearing down we have to acknowledge that all of us have some sort of personal standard and begin to consider how we can ever reconcile the differences? I know, I know, standards should not be crammed down throats, and taken out of context! I AGREE MORE THAN YOU KNOW! But having no standards is just unrealistic - every religion, workplace, and business does.

Propose a change! Don't just complain about the obvious. But that's a bigger task than what any of us imagine. In this light, I can't throw that many stones at the UPCI

Timmy 01-20-2010 03:03 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig (Post 867844)
Here are a few of my stances:

I don't dress provocatively - I dress modest.
I don't drink or go to bars to hang out.
I don't gossip or backbite.
I don't have a haughty or better than you attitude.
I don't judge others.
I go with my convictions that COME from God - - they aren't really mine.

They came from God?

missourimary 01-20-2010 03:04 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867878)
I agree with what you are saying. I would only be against the "enabler". The person allowing the hurt to be voiced and gnawed on like a bone. That helps no one.

Yes, when the discussion becomes a bitter, repetitive outpouring of former hurts, rather than a statement of, "yes, this happened to me and you can make it too," or "ouch, this happened to me, what should I do?" there is or will be a problem. No one's wounds heal when they are picking the scabs.

:thumbsup

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 03:06 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 867888)
Yes, when the discussion becomes a bitter, repetitive outpouring of former hurts, rather than a statement of, "yes, this happened to me and you can make it too," or "ouch, this happened to me, what should I do?" there is or will be a problem. No one's wounds heal when they are picking the scabs.

:thumbsup

Amen, well said. Gotta run. Have a great evening! Is today Wednesday? LOL!

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 03:16 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867829)
You know what my point about all of this is? A question for those that are against the UPCI and what they stand for. Renda may want to move this to it's own thread.

We have been through our share of trouble, but being guided by the Lord, He says to stay and see it through, He will bring the victory. We have seen this happen.

Now, the question - What would those opposing the UPCI have us do? Walk away from the will of God or obey His direction - "Stay where you are and see it through"? With "standards" and other trappings that some disagree with and some things we are not in total agreement, He says to stay.

I think this is a very serious question and matter. For those, adamantly, pushing against the UPCI and it's leadership, it appears to me that they are interfering in people's lives and the direction God would have them walk.

It is my opinion that we are being perfected and must be very careful to walk through and not around situations, circumstances, trials, etc., that we face. We must always go to God and find direction.

It appears to me, from observation, that some are directing and counseling others to find their own direction and make their own decisions.

I believe that part of being perfected (maturing) is going through trials, learning, growing, etc. After all, "In patience, possess ye your souls."

We always know, "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."

And so, the question:

If God is telling me to stay where I am, how do I and how should I take those that oppose where I serve?

I need to log out, but I don't believe my questions were answered. Would someone care to indulge me? The questions in bold......

missourimary 01-20-2010 03:26 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867894)
I need to log out, but I don't believe my questions were answered. Would someone care to indulge me? The questions in bold......

If God is telling me to stay where I am, how do I and how should I take those that oppose where I serve?

Keep doing what you feel God wants you to do, as long as it glorifies Him.

I wouldn't "take them" any kind of way. Each of us has a separate pair of eyes and our own mind and heart for a reason. God has a unique place for each of us.

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 03:33 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 867903)
Tell them it's none of their business. Then keep doing what you feel God wants you to do, as long as it glorifies Him.

So, I should put that in my signature line and post on all the threads, like this one, that keeps coming up? :toofunny

This forum leans more toward the anti-UPC crowd and I really would like some solid answers. I feel it's important for people to realize that we must sincerely follow the will of God. We feel that we are doing that.

That means that even if I don't agree with some things, I am in because God is instructing us to stay and He is building a church and I need to be in it.

I can't leave if He is telling me to stay, hence, my frustration with some of the conversations. I know, I shouldn't get involved if it bothers me, but I wanted some to consider my point of view. I'm just as passionate on following the will of God in my life as everyone else says that they are.

missourimary 01-20-2010 03:42 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Sure! Put it in your signature! :toofunny

Each church is different. Denominal ones as well as OP. Some people feel God tells them to go, others feel He tells them to stay. Both are OK. And both may very well be right for their situations.

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 03:44 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by missourimary (Post 867906)
Sure! Put it in your signature! :toofunny

Each church is different. Denominal ones as well as OP. Some people feel God tells them to go, others feel He tells them to stay. Both are OK. And both may very well be right for their situations.

I agree. Because at the end of this age, I will be the only person answering to God for what I have done on this earth.

Okay really have to go. LOL!

Michael Phelps 01-20-2010 04:04 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867863)
Right, we shouldn't push our convictions on others.

I do think the org, and I don't usually elaborate on these issues either way aside from strictly debating scripture, is that they must refine the language of "it's not a heaven or hell issue" but then not use someone in a leadership position if someone chooses to do those things that are not supposed to be heaven or hell. That was a long sentence! LOL!

There are platform standards which any church is welcome to hold and has the right to demand of it's members.

But pushing a compliance while saying it is not a heaven or hell issue is not going to work and is confusing. We will have to iron that one out.

I still believe we are in a transition and not fully transitioned that pants are visually acceptable for a women. Still, at the grocery store, you get compliments on dress and hair. It's still a perception, IMO. I think the UPCI isn't sure they want to go there. I mean walk away from that.

For instance, in the clip that Daniel provided, DKB comments, and it has been my observation as well, that many people are attending mainstream churches, but not living up to full Christian standards of living. My Dentist from Burma made the same observation to me after visiting a huge Charismatic church in our area. She was very turned off and never went back. So, on our part, we see this and wonder if we will go that way.

I believe that Benincasa made the comment, on another thread, that people coming from other countries backslide when they live here. It is showing that the American churches, as a whole, are lacking.

I just received an update from Focus on the Family who is staging some meeting about our Youth that are not attending church in this country. They are not speaking of the UPCI, but the church at large. Something is desperately wrong - all they way around.

PO, it's been a while since you and I had a good skirmish, and I wouldn't mind if it was longer, but I do have to point out an observation.

You said your dentist from Burma went to a Charismatic church, was turned off and never went back. And, then I didn't understand your next statement "We see this and wonder if we will go that way". Could you please clarify?

Also, my next question is - why was she turned off? Because the women wore pants? The men had beards? The music was too loud? The people were unfriendly? I'm just trying to get a better understanding of why she was turned off, because there are millions of people who attend Charismatic churches every week who are NOT turned off, so I'm just curious.

And, as far as Benincasa's statement (If it was Benny), that is an extremely broad brush statement "People coming from other countries backslide when they live here". How many people? All of them, what percentage, and what's the measuring stick to determine this?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but these kinds of unfounded statements just bug the daylights out of me!

So, if you could please provide some clarification, I would be MOST appreciative!

Michael Phelps 01-20-2010 04:08 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867894)
I need to log out, but I don't believe my questions were answered. Would someone care to indulge me? The questions in bold......

PO, I don't believe that anyone on this thread has tried to convince anyone else to either leave the UPC or join the UPC.

As Mo Mary said, you should stay exactly where you feel God has placed you.

However, realize that the leadership of any organization, when they make public statements and become the mouthpiece of that organization, will be the topic of discussion, both pro and con. Just like the POTUS is a topic of discussion over American policies, and freedom of speech allows us to cast our vocal votes on a daily basis, the leader of the UPCI, or Southern Baptist convention, or Roman Catholic church is no different.

I think that's what I've seen more than anything on this forum, discussion over issues and policies that either currently affect us, or have affected most of us in the past.

I don't see anyone here saying "You should all leave the UPCI, they teach the doctrine of devils".

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 04:10 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps (Post 867909)
PO, it's been a while since you and I had a good skirmish, and I wouldn't mind if it was longer

If you had only not have said this, I would have responded. But, now I can't. :D

Michael Phelps 01-20-2010 04:14 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867911)
If you had only not have said this, I would have responded. But, now I can't. :D

Sure you can, we can discuss amicably! That's why I said I wouldn't mind if we endured a peaceful treaty for a longer period of time!

See how I asked for clarification this time!?

Pressing-On 01-20-2010 04:19 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps (Post 867912)
Sure you can, we can discuss amicably! That's why I said I wouldn't mind if we endured a peaceful treaty for a longer period of time!

That is NOT what you said initially, Mr. Politician man. LOL!

You always anticipate that we will skirmish and then we do. I'm trying to eat a salad and I have to wash my hair, so I haven't the time, unfortunately. :D

You take up too much of my time because I have to word everything soooo precisely so that we won't have a misunderstanding. I just don't have the time right this minute.

Have a great evening. I might get back with you on this later.

Michael Phelps 01-20-2010 04:21 PM

Re: DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 867913)
That is NOT what you said initially, Mr. Politician man. LOL!

You always anticipate that we will skirmish and then we do. I'm trying to eat a salad and I have to wash my hair, so I haven't the time, unfortunately. :D

You take up too much of my time because I have to word everything soooo precisely so that we won't have a misunderstanding. I just don't have the time right this minute.

Have a great evening. I might get back with you on this later.

No problem, I'm heading out for the evening, as well. Have a good night!


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:20 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.