Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

Good for him. You forget. It's not about me. Its about truth. I have NEVER said a man is not free to shave his beard.

The battle is when Preachers WITHOUT SCRIPTURE take it on themselves to teach men their beard either proves they are a rebel in heart...or that they are identified with gays, drug dealers and such and such. Even tho the Lord Jesus himself had or perhaps even STILL has a beard.

There is a HUGE difference.

Apparently you are an Elder in your Church. Do you teach men they must shave? If so why?

Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

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Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

They don't can't understand what you're trying to explain. They are so sold out on the traditions of man being taught for doctrine, they think you're the one being unbiblical.

The Bible is secondary to their traditions.

Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

Amen:highfive

Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

No, but my no is meaningless to this discussion with YOU.

Want me to repeat why? Because you aren't an elder, therefore the question is neither here nor there. You could come back and say, "well if I were an elder I wouldn't make it an issue." But that is like saying if you were a rich man you would help the poor. You aren't rich, you aren't an elder in a church family. So, you aren't dealing with the different levels concerning this topic. It is always so easy to judge situations concerning church family and its sisters and brothers. Especially when you are outside the walls of the camp. No scripture for something? Did my brother's friend give him SCRIPTURE for him to shave off his Rip Van Winkle? No bro. Do you know why shedding the surface was mandatory? Because of the client.



How is it good for him? You mean it is good for him if he submits to a shave because to get a job? But if the preacher "asks" him to shave to be up on a platform it isn't good for him? You just got a chip on your shoulder. Like I said before, you get a congregation together and then tell me how you git er done.


Yeah right. It is always about us. That is why we get a history lesson with you spouting the 70s, the 80s, Jacuzzi baptisms of yesteryear, and burlap bag shirts from days gone by. It is all about what you experienced in your microscopic Pentecostal Worldview. That is why some of us read these posts and scratch our heads saying "that didn't happen to me." Your offenses in the past, and hearing one sided stories from disgruntles since 1974 evolved into First Church of Little Shop Of Horrors "feed me Seymour."

Yes you did, you gave Leviticus 19:27 as it being proof that men were expected to wear beards. My old buddy in West Florida uses the same scripture. Yet, he believes that you MUST wear a beard. I would bet that you would have a congregation of bearded guys in your congregation if you had one. The chance of someone being under your ministry without a beard would be slim. Yet, you can come back with no no no, all you want, because you aren't over a church.

No, the battle is with you and Elder N. A. Urshan's quote. You know he qualified what he said as not being Bible, you do remember that? He is was the General Supe back then when he said it. Not some goof ball writing a book no bigger than a pamphlet. But the General Superintendent of the Organization. But, you want to dance around all that just so you can cry over your beard. Guess what? If I was in a church family with you, I would ask you to shave off your beard. Not because of fags, and drug addicts. But because you are such a big baby when it comes to the least of our problems. Hoss, while you live cloistered in your new retirement preoccupied over facial hair. Ministers across the world are dealing with other issues. Our church in Panama is dealing with riots over electricity, and prices on property. A brother I spoke to last night is trying to get into Nicaragua to deal with his church family there but riots in the region are causing issues. We just sent out a team to Mexico to do baptism, and teach for one month. Facial hair? Why or why not? But if someone is getting a job, a haircut and a shave is suddenly cool? Wow.

How would you know?

Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

The two guys who don't attend church amen each other.

How sad.

Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

Believers don't "attend church"... believers are the church 24/7.

I caution you to keep in mind that just because a believer doesn't "attend" some canned performance with a concert, monologue from a stiff suit parroting organizational legalisms, and an offering, it doesn't mean that they don't fellowship fellow believers at all. I don't typically attend an institutional church, but we have family altar twice a week, in addition to informal gatherings with other believers who are friends, family, and neighbors throughout the week. There is a church that I've considered, but they are so caught up in the 20th Century "traditions" of their "Apostolic Identity", the mere idea of dropping man made standards and just following the Bible brought only blank stares. Oh well, it doesn't surprise me that the more and more I look into these churches they know more about "the manual" than Emmanuel. Such is the way of the harlot churches.

Most of those who I know that "attend" an institutional church don't even have family altar (we call it "Jesus Time" at our house) or even a time sat aside for family prayer at home. They attend church services, drop some jingle-jangle in the plate, cheer the preacher's sermonizing, go to KFC after church, and barely talk to anyone else in attendance until the next meeting. I've been saved for nearly 30 years now. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Some of us who don't attend the institutional church actually have more "Jesus" going on daily in our lives than some who do.

So, your judgments are a reflection of your own ignorance.

Do you lead family altar with your family, EB?

Don't lie, or get nasty. Else, God might ring your bell again. As my Irish grandmother used to say, "A kind word never broke a tooth." :heeheehee

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Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

Well you are not there. Bro, this sure isn't church by a long shot.

But, be of good cheer, because of have met more goof balls who claimed that they were the "church" 24/7 who were out on the skids. Didn't attend a congregation, had no ministerial eldership and like yourself weren't accountable to anyone who really mattered.

Caution me? Sweet sweet love of God, you are the last person that I would take warning from. One of the young men on the job was looking at you posting with me over in one of the threads. He asked me if I was having a conversation with a bot. Which sparked another conversation. Chris, physician, heal thyself.


Chris, going to your local bar, and drinking beers with some guys isn't church.


Family Altar? Oh, the First Church of "Me and You and a dog named Boo?"

Lots of accountability in those groups.

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That got us all laughing.

Chris, walks into church.

Takes an evaluation.

Then tells everyone what he wants THEM TO DO.

Bravo, bravo, well done Mr Horse's hind end.

My respect level for you is now lower than ever before. :laffatu



What a jerk. :heeheehee


Most of those you know? Right on Chris, most of those you know you talk smack about their religious life? Most of those you know have no clue that you talk smack about them on forums? Most of them you know probably think your a back biting jerk. :heeheehee

Yep, and the T-Shirt was read by God because it has all the NAMES of THEM on the front and back.

You are a coward. :thumbsup

Oh, for sure Chris. Just like you. If you are the example of more Jesus, then I am going on a spiritual diet. :heeheehee


Only logical that it would go right back at yah :laffatu
[
QUOTE=Aquila;1541861]

Do you lead family altar with your family, EB?[/quote]

Before I comment, why don't you paint us a picture of what you are referring to?

You mean like you do? Backbiter? :heeheehee

I guess John and Jesus calling people serpents, foxes, dogs, and brood of vipers, wouldn't of scored high with your granny. :)

Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

Okay. Let me try to get a handle on what you mean.

What kind of "accountability" am I missing?

A man that is more focused on the fact that I can grow a better beard than his lady-face than what the Bible actually teaches? A man who mocks PTSD and tells me it's all in my head? A man who makes false accusations against my wife? A man who will say one thing one day and then testify before God in his office that he never said it... while two others are looking sideways at him because they heard what he originally said too?

Biblically speaking, it is a father's role to raise up his family in the fear and admonition of the Lord. The elders serve as mentors, guides, overseers. They aren't mini-popes like your cult has programmed you to believe. And in that understanding, I have several elders that I turn to for guidance and prayer.

I'm not even sure what that means. Nor do I care. You don't have to take any warning from me. I'm simply offering that I believe that you should take caution not to judge so harshly without any knowledge of what you're talking about. While I can't speak for Michael, I do have elders I've turned to that are more than helpful in my life. Of course, they don't lead like mini-popes who want to control every whisker on my face.

Again, that's slander. I haven't been in a bar drinking it up with buddies for years. There is one bar I've gone to a few times within the past two years with my family, and it was during the day, because they have great food. You're making something up about somebody and judging them by it. You're living in a world of self-fabricated illusions, by which you judge people. You're out of touch with reality.

I don't claim that it is "church". People are the church. You and I are the church. You are even an extension of the church when you're by yourself. What we have is "Jesus Time". It's a time of fellowship, discussion, prayer, and encouragement.

Again, what am I missing in the way of accountability? A man to tell me my whiskers are too long to claim that I follow Jesus? LOL

Look at what you did there. You just imagined, fabricated, invented, an entire event... judged it... and then made a judgement against me! LOL You're disconnected from reality, "elder". Let me explain to you what actually happened, because... um... I was there. It was after church and we were in a restaurant on Miller Lane. I was relatively quiet and just eating my food as I listened to the conversation. The guys in question (pastor included) were discussing "Apostolic identity" and the "standards". Now, I'm a just a visitor in this church, so I just sat and listened for the vast majority of the conversation. Being a visitor, I have an advantage. I don't have any financial or emotional investment in this particular body. So, I can speak my mind, share my thoughts, and weigh how they receive them. Remember, I'm the guy who would be attending and giving them my money, so, it's kinda like an interview for a job. Will this guy pass my interview to be my pastor? Or will he prove to be a total flake? I just looked around and said,

"Well, I don't read anything in my Bible about prohibitions against beards, specific articles of clothing like shorts on men, wedding bands, or even short sleeves. But the Bible does specifically address sin. Why isn't our identity rooted in simply following the Bible???"

That was met with blank stares and total silence for most of the remainder of the meal. I made certain that I addressed Christina and the kids freely, laughed, talked about Jesus, etc. They were so uncomfortable it was stupid silly. LOL And part of me was disappointed. I knew they had little regards for Scripture beyond their tradition. I guess what disappointed me most is that no one had the guts to try to defend their error. They wanted to drop the topic like a hot potato. The only discussion after that, surprisingly, was about sports. Which, I'm not sure how they know so much about it, they aren't permitted to go to games. LOL Oh well... such is institutional religion.

Ummm… they are only preaching the Gospel of their organization, with its traditions of man, and I'm all about "Emmanuel" over "the manual"... and I'm the jerk? You've chosen your side. You've not had the guts to defend the Bible from the traditions of man for many years now. And, now you're beholden to it like some Borg Drone. Take your lady face, and go measure some skirts, and check for facial hair among your brethren, or something. Because I want my focus to be on Jesus.

You can get your panties all up in a bunch over it if you like, "elder", but the truth of the matter is... in all the years I attended the institutional UPCI churches... very few families had family altar. Now, if the TRUTH makes me a backbiting jerk... so be it. Men like you always have trouble when people speak uncomfortable truths that you ignore.

Well, they can keep the T-shirt... I'm looking forward to a white robe.

Really? I've been uninvited, rebuked, and slandered by men all over the Tristate area for speaking against the traditions of men being taught for doctrines. It's almost to the point that there are few churches I'd probably be welcomed in. But you don't have the stones to defend Scripture from the doctrines of men, slick your hair back, put on a suite, roll over and bark for their traditions... and I'm the coward? No, EB. You're the coward. You've sold the Bible down the river long ago for the praise of men.

Frankly EB, I've yet to see you mention a tradition of man within the Apostolic movement you didn't like! LOL

Run along now, Sparky. You're just a barking lap dog for the institutions. :dogpat

You'd do us all a favor if you stopped posting and found something deeply spiritual to do... like... shave. :heeheehee

I'm just me. Jesus is everything.

TO BE CONTINUED...

Re: Judged By A Bearded Man
 

CONTINUED...

There is no set way to do it. In our family we gather in the living room and pray, discuss our struggles, pray for one another, and worship. Sometimes we read the Scriptures and share and discuss it. Sometimes we'll even have communion. It's not too unlike house church. And, we've even had neighbors come and fellowship with us. My son has a few friends who, if they are at the house when we do this, they are welcomed and get involved. We get things off our chests, we confess mistakes, the kids have opportunity to voice how they are feeling. It's not always sunshine and rainbows either. But it's an important time to reflect and turn to Jesus as a family.

I'm defending the Scriptures from your traditions. You don't have the right to call me "nasty". LOL I'm on God's side. That means, no matter what you say, or even if you get so mad at what I say that you tighten your creepy little tie so tight you turn blue... I'm still right. :happydance

Ah, good point...

Matthew 23:1-36 (ESV)
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Oh, and...

Matthew 15:7-9 (KJV)
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

You're right, you ol' viper. Jesus had some rather unkind things to say about your kind. :laffatu