Are Trinitarians Saved?
If I understand partialism aright, the Oneness view of the divinity is that Jesus is the one deity who manifests as Father, Word or Son and the Sacred Spirit. The analogy of a father who is simultaneously a son and a husband incorrectly by some imprecise Trinitarians is a description of modalism. However, none of these dimensions can simultaneously manifest; it is a modification of the fourth and fifth century excommunicated Nœtians, Sabellians, Praxeans and the beliefs of Theodoret (190 AD). Thus, it is obviously not the classic doctrine of the sacred triad, who like the musical term (though a poor reflection of it) are three subsistences in one indivisible person, equal in power and glory, identical in essence. Oneness denies this subsistency.
Herein lies the question -- do Oneness believers think Trinitarians are Christians or do they adhere to the thought of the UPCI manual that we are lost? Interestingly, that question was asked by Dr Martin in the 1985 Oneness debate on the Ankenberg show. If memory serves, Dr Urshan answered God knew who is lost, but Martin (who I don't endorse) indicated he, who was then the UPCI General Superintendent, had copped out on UPCI literature. What do you think? |
Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?
I believe the answer is something like....
They're as lost as 2 boys kissin. |
Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?
or maybe
John 8:24 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins." |
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I honestly wonder if most modalists have ever bothered to read a work on the triad. Like most other antitrinitarians, it seems to me to be such that they take at face value what they are told toto cælo from whatever authority, even if incorrect. If I had a dollar for all the literally identical hackneyed, frequently false arguments antitrinitarians use, often stealing from one another without credit, there would never be another bill to pay! Personally, it is revealing to be likened to homosexuals or heathen being neither. The grace shown often appears one-sided, and not on the antitrinitarian part... I possess the 2017 UPCI manual. It declares, particularly in its position papers, lost all who do not accept its modified Sabellianism. If it believes in a literal hell, there is no stretch of the imagination to where it declares all to go who reject or never hear its message. Interestingly, it steals the exact wording and format of the Assemblies of God's documents over a century after is excommunication by the Assemblies. I could easily level against you the charge of disinformation because Trinitarian theology is not partialism; we affirm personhood. You do not if I have properly represented so-deemed Jesus-Only teaching. I reiterate I am studying Oneness Pentecostalism because I have no experience with it after 21 years in mainline Pentecostalism. Frankly, the responses 20 years ago from your camp are unchanged toward trinitarians despite being an unbeliever until 2009, wholly ignorant of the issue as a child, save that they were supposed to be wrong and unable to join the church, though welcome therein. Perhaps you ought to ask the UPCI headquarters in Missouri why it lists CF Parham, Tertullian and other Pentecostal trinitarians forefathers in the preface. I'm not looking for a debate. I'm looking for opinions, thanks. |
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Please cite in the 2017 manual where all Trinitarians are declared "lost". Thanks. |
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You are just looking for a fight. |
Re: Are Trinitarians Saved?
The boys may be brothers!!!!!!! You don't know! You may be lost for judging for all we know! Make sure YOU make heaven YOUR home!
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