Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

This from a different thread ... still would like some feedback from the 3 steppers lurking about ...

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Some say the thief on the cross was saved under the old covenant ... what does that mean to you,?

Some insist, that the covenant has no bite until the death of the testator yet the bible tells us Jesus promises the thief salvation before He (Jesus dies).

and ....

not to get too technical ....

the thief dies after Jesus dies ...

so to say that he is judged under the law ... is inaccurate then under your parameters.

You reiterate that a covenant comes into force with the death of the testator: "For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives." (Hebrews 9:16-17).

but Jesus predeceased the thief ...

"Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs." (John 19:32-33).

Legs were broken to finish the job ....

Thus the thief died, unbaptized ... much less using the right formula, under the new covenant.

If it is not possible for a new covenant believer to enter heaven without baptism...what's the thief doing in Paradise? ... Which I believe is Mike from Arkansas original question.

One writer on the subject states:

Quote:
Keep in mind Jesus promises his salvation knowing full well He would die before the thief ... He's omniscient as God. Are you suggesting Jesus didn't know that thief would enter his reward ... during the "new convenant" era ... that requires baptism to be saved???

Surely the thief could have cursed God and not believed in the hours that he languished after Christ's death ... yet salvation is granted to a new testament believer looking forward ... to a dispensation you view as grace through obeying 3 steps to enter the New Covenant.

Surely Jesus knew what He was doing, no?

Furthermore ...No one has ever been acquitted by the law ... correct?

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

"We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." (Galatians 2:15-16)


So when does the New Covenant have bite or go into effect??? Is it until He dies??, resurrects ???... the Day of Pentecost???

Did the thief still die under the Old Covenant ... and thus saved by the Old Covenant? Do you have Scripture to support this claim?

An answer to these questions is warranted ...

Re: Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

Who said the NT went into effect when Jesus died. Him dying isn't the Gospel. The Gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

Re: Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

Re: Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

Romans 1:16-18 ( KJV ) 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Re: Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

Agreed .... so I must believe in the good news of Christ for salvation... and His righteousness is revealed from faith to faith ... we are justified and live by faith ... that is why the thief was awarded eternal life ... faith in Him ... looking forward to the salvation he would provide ....

This gospel of Christ brought the power of God's salvation to the Jew first ... then the Greek.

I'd like an answer to the questions posed about the thief, Dan.

Re: Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

Dan, the death of Jesus isn't the new testament. Who is saying that? Is this an attempt to justify your one step beliefs? This is what it has come to? Y'all are truly sick and bent on twisting the Word of God to fit your perverted notions about salvation. Which of your supposed PCI elders preached this ridiculous doctrine?

Re: Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

Rico ... if you can't enter this discussion without any theology or an honest attempt to answer the questions posed perhaps you can read the thread?

This will be my last communication directed towards you on this thread if you will not discuss the subject matter.

Re: Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

Concerning the thief that Jesus said would be with Him in paradise, he would not be under the new covenant because the Holy Ghost (the seal of the new covenant) had yet to be poured out.

Re: Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

Thank you Dan for your response to the subject matter.

So the New Covenant officially begins at Pentecost, Dan?

Can you elaborate?

Re: Thief on the Cross: A New Covenant Believer?
 

You are most welcome Dan! Hope it cleared things up for you..........:toofunny