Apostolic Friends Forum - The Impossible for the Enlightened

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The Impossible for the Enlightened

The writer of Hebrews in ch3,4 refers to those, who at Kadesh refused to enter into rest, refusing to believe and to enter the promised land. Those who refused were judged. They were to die in the wilderness and not given another opportunity to enter the land.

Strangely, these were not given any opportunity for repentance for this unbelief. They were not given another chance.

The writer of Hebrews then continues. He says in ch6, of those in the Church Age, that any who are enlightened, that it is impossible that they be renewed in repentance if they turn away. Does the writer thus make a comparison between those OT who refused to enter rest and those NT who have tasted of the heavenly gift? What does this teach the NT saint?

Re: The Impossible for the Enlightened

It teaches that Persistent unbelief and rebellion against God ( Hebrews 3:15-19), deliberate sin (Hebrews 10:26-31), and rejection of His truth can lead to a hardened heart (Hebrews 3:13), causing individuals to reject God's mercy and grace. This path ultimately invites God's judgment (Hebrews 10:30-31).

Re: The Impossible for the Enlightened

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Originally Posted by donfriesen1 (Post 1618348)

They had 40 years to get their act together and consistently and repeatedly failed to do so.

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The writer of Hebrews then continues. He says in ch6, of those in the Church Age, that any who are enlightened, that it is impossible that they be renewed in repentance if they turn away. Does the writer thus make a comparison between those OT who refused to enter rest and those NT who have tasted of the heavenly gift? What does this teach the NT saint?

It teaches that the Christian who apostasizes and turns away from faith in Christ has no expectation of being saved. It is impossible to renew them to repentance does not mean it is impossible for them to repent, but that it is impossible to renew them to repentance, which I understand to mean it is impossible for preaching to re-convert them.

The use of the admonition in chapter 3 and 4 is to warn people against rejecting the Gospel while pretending they still have a covenant relationship with God. That is, the Judean is warned that rejecting Christ while still claiming to follow God and his Covenant would not avail, they would like the Exodus generation be barred from inheriting the promises of God.

Re: The Impossible for the Enlightened

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1618360)

They had 40 years to get their act together and consistently and repeatedly failed to do so.

It teaches that the Christian who apostasizes and turns away from faith in Christ has no expectation of being saved. It is impossible to renew them to repentance does not mean it is impossible for them to repent, but that it is impossible to renew them to repentance, which I understand to mean it is impossible for preaching to re-convert them.

The use of the admonition in chapter 3 and 4 is to warn people against rejecting the Gospel while pretending they still have a covenant relationship with God. That is, the Judean is warned that rejecting Christ while still claiming to follow God and his Covenant would not avail, they would like the Exodus generation be barred from inheriting the promises of God.

:thumbsup

Re: The Impossible for the Enlightened

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Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1618354)

Amen.

Re: The Impossible for the Enlightened

Quote:
Originally Posted by donfriesen1 View Post
The writer of Hebrews in ch3,4 refers to those, who at Kadesh refused to enter into rest, refusing to believe and to enter the promised land. Those who refused were judged. They were to die in the wilderness and not given another opportunity to enter the land.

Strangely, these were not given any opportunity for repentance for this unbelief. They were not given another chance.

[QUOTE=Esaias;1618360]They had 40 years to get their act together and consistently and repeatedly failed to do so.

What I had hoped to point out was that they were judged with the promise of death immediately after the event, but not given any chance to repent of their wrong doing to avoid this. It appears to me, perhaps wrongly, that something had happened between God and them previously, which had prevented them from being given the chance to repent. Often people are given a chance to make amends, which it appears to me this time, perhaps wrongly, that they weren't given. What the writer says in He6 reinforces this opinion, where he uses the word 'impossible'.

Re: The Impossible for the Enlightened

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Originally Posted by donfriesen1 (Post 1618375)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1618360)

They had 40 years to get their act together and consistently and repeatedly failed to do so.

Quote:

What I had hoped to point out was that they were judged with the promise of death immediately after the event, but not given any chance to repent of their wrong doing to avoid this. It appears to me, perhaps wrongly, that something had happened between God and them previously, which had prevented them from being given the chance to repent. Often people are given a chance to make amends, which it appears to me this time, perhaps wrongly, that they weren't given. What the writer says in He6 reinforces this opinion, where he uses the word 'impossible'.

Numbers 14:22-23 KJV
Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; [23] Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

Interesting how God sent ten plagues upon Egypt, and how Israel provoked God and rebelled ten times. In any event, it wasn't the case that Israel sinned once, and God condemned them with no chance to repent and make things right. Rather, they rebelled ten times, in fact God was originally just going to destroy ALL of them, the entire nation. But Moses interceded and prevented that from happening. Instead, God said all the adults were going to die in the wilderness, and their children would inherit the promised land.

So God was fed up with them. It is a well known doctrine that God, while being long-suffering, nevertheless has an end to His patience with the wicked. At some point, God gives people what they want. If they don't want God, and persist in rejecting Him, He gives them what they want - He gives them over to their fate.

Re: The Impossible for the Enlightened

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So God was fed up with them. It is a well known doctrine that God, while being long-suffering, nevertheless has an end to His patience with the wicked. At some point, God gives people what they want. If they don't want God, and persist in rejecting Him, He gives them what they want - He gives them over to their fate.

Agreed. This Kadesh incident is the foundation for that doctrine. The writer of Hebrews says it is impossible to renew them to repentance. I have the opinion that God could forgive such as these because he has a heart big enough to do so. The problem lies with those who by repeated 'turning-off the Lord's prompts to change' produce a permanent rut in their response process, making it then impossible to get out of it.

It is a very dangerous thing to reject truth. Any who do so, do at their own peril. Keep your heart with all diligence is the warning Solomon gives, yet himself failed to do.