Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   I AM=Father (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=55174)

donfriesen1 12-23-2025 07:34 AM

I AM=Father
 
Most everyone believes that Jehovah is the Father. When Jesus said I AM, he was claiming to be the Father. Yet Trinitarians will say that the Son is not the Father. And so, their claim to love the Truth of the Bible goes out the window.

Evang.Benincasa 12-23-2025 08:01 AM

Re: I AM=Father
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by donfriesen1 (Post 1620854)
Most everyone believes that Jehovah is the Father. When Jesus said I AM, he was claiming to be the Father. Yet Trinitarians will say that the Son is not the Father. And so, their claim to love the Truth of the Bible goes out the window.

Who is Jehovah? Are you looking for the Watchtower Forum?

https://www.jehovahswitness.com

Evang.Benincasa 12-23-2025 08:01 AM

Re: I AM=Father
 
Is Jesus Jehovah Junior?

donfriesen1 12-23-2025 07:59 PM

Re: I AM=Father
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1620857)
Is Jesus Jehovah Junior?

Are you suggesting Jesus is Jehovah Junior by saying this?

Evang.Benincasa 12-23-2025 08:40 PM

Re: I AM=Father
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by donfriesen1 (Post 1620869)
Are you suggesting Jesus is Jehovah Junior by saying this?

I placed a question mark at the end of my sentence. Which would make it a question. No wonder that preacher doesn't want you in his pulpit. :lol

votivesoul 12-27-2025 01:29 PM

Re: I AM=Father
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by donfriesen1 (Post 1620854)
Most everyone believes that Jehovah is the Father. When Jesus said I AM, he was claiming to be the Father. Yet Trinitarians will say that the Son is not the Father. And so, their claim to love the Truth of the Bible goes out the window.

That isn't how it works in Trinitarian Theology. And, most Oneness don't believe the Son is the Father, either.

donfriesen1 12-27-2025 02:27 PM

Re: I AM=Father
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1620894)
That isn't how it works in Trinitarian Theology. And, most Oneness don't believe the Son is the Father, either.

Indeed. Even Trinitarians have trouble understanding and communicating it clearly. They will jump back and forth between two definitions when running into trouble using just one of them.

He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Seems clear to me that Jesus was claiming to be the Father, that he was the Father. The NT says Jesus created the world, making him the Father, right?

Oneness people believe Jesus is Father and Son and Spirit. But if we are speaking about God manifesting himself, then we should not be surprised to realize he has manifested himself in many ways, not limited to these 3.

Hey Dom, if Jesus is I AM and I Am Is Jehovah, does that mean Jesus is the Father when it was Jehovah who created the world? What does Father mean but "originator"?

Tithesmeister 12-27-2025 05:56 PM

Re: I AM=Father
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by donfriesen1 (Post 1620896)
Indeed. Even Trinitarians have trouble understanding and communicating it clearly. They will jump back and forth between two definitions when running into trouble using just one of them.

He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Seems clear to me that Jesus was claiming to be the Father, that he was the Father. The NT says Jesus created the world, making him the Father, right?

Oneness people believe Jesus is Father and Son and Spirit. But if we are speaking about God manifesting himself, then we should not be surprised to realize he has manifested himself in many ways, not limited to these 3.

Hey Dom, if Jesus is I AM and I Am Is Jehovah, does that mean Jesus is the Father when it was Jehovah who created the world? What does Father mean but "originator"?

I’m answering your literal question with a literal answer. Sometimes it helps to clear up confusion. The following is cut and pasted from Merriam Webster’s online dictionary. Your “originator” definition falls under number 5. So I hope this helps answer the question “what does father mean but “originator”?”
The obvious answer would be that Jesus was God’s only begotten son.

fa·​ther | \ ˈfä-t͟hər \
plural fa​thers
Definition (Entry 1 of 2)
1 a (1) : a male parent
(2) : a man who has begotten a child
also : a male animal who has sired an offspring
b capitalized
(1) : GOD sense 1
(2) : the first person of the Trinity (see TRINITY sense 1)
2 : FOREFATHER
//the founding fathers
3 a : one related to another in a way suggesting that of father to child
b : an old man —used as a respectful form of address
4 often capitalized : a pre-Scholastic (see SCHOLASTIC sense 1a) Christian writer accepted by the church as an authoritative witness to its teaching and practice
— called also church father
5 a : one that originates or institutes
//the father of modern science
b : SOURCE
//… the sun, the father of warmth and light.
— Lena M. Whitney
c : PROTOTYPE
//the father of all libraries in the country
6 : a priest of the regular clergy
broadly : PRIEST —used especially as a title
7 : one of the leading men (as of a city) —usually used in plural
//a council of the city fathers
verb
fa​thered; fa​ther​ing \ ˈfä-t͟hə-riŋ , ˈfät͟h-riŋ \
Definition (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive ​verb
1 a : BEGET
b : to be the founder, producer, or author of
//fathered the improvement plan
c : to accept responsibility for
2 a : to fix the paternity or origin of
b : to place responsibility for the origin or cause of
//collected gossip and fathered it on responsible men
— J. A. Williamson
3 : FOIST, IMPOSE
intransitive ​verb
: to care for or look after someone as a father might

votivesoul 12-28-2025 08:58 AM

Re: I AM=Father
 
It is my experience that Trinititarians are far better versed in their Theology than Oneness adherents.

Further, it is also my experience that Oneness adherents, when attempting to discuss or explain Trinitarian Theology, do a shoddy job of it, like you're doing here.

Quote:

He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Seems clear to me that Jesus was claiming to be the Father, that he was the Father. The NT says Jesus created the world, making him the Father, right?
Don, have you ever seen Jesus? No? Then you haven't seen the Father.

John 14:9 uses a metaphorical use of the word "seen".

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/3708.htm

It means to experience or perceive. Experiencing or perceiving Jesus correctly means automatically experiencing or perceiving the Father. Hebrews 1:3 explains the mechanics of this:

Hebrews 1:3 (ESV),

Quote:

He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high...
And as for Jesus creating the world, that isn't correct. The Father created all things through the Logos, in view of Christ.

John 1:1-3 (ESV),

Quote:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
The word "through" is δι’ - di'. It means "A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through"

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/1223.htm

Colossians 1:15-16 (ESV),

Quote:

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Here, "by" is the Greek word ἐν - en, and it means "A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position". In other words, it means "in".

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/1722.htm

As for "through", it's the same preposition used in John 1:3 referenced above.

Christ is the lens, if you will, in which God the Father foresaw the world, and the instrument through which God the Father made that world a reality by bringing it into being through the Logos.

Quote:

Oneness people believe Jesus is Father and Son and Spirit. But if we are speaking about God manifesting himself, then we should not be surprised to realize he has manifested himself in many ways, not limited to these 3.
Rather, Oneness believe the Father, Son, and Spirit are Jesus. It's an important distinction.

Quote:

Hey Dom, if Jesus is I AM and I Am Is Jehovah, does that mean Jesus is the Father when it was Jehovah who created the world? What does Father mean but "originator"?[/SIZE][/COLOR]
Hey, Don, why are you calling out to Brother Benincasa in your response to me?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.