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Originally Posted by Nitehawk013
If I were in Decatur I would visit for sure. Sounds like a place I would enjoy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitehawk013
I am however in Ohio. You and Rudy raise an interesting point about starting churches that go against the current. The problem is, I'm not so sure about doing it. I am in a very strong, stable, large church. It is a very good church in most ways. Now, I have a real problem with the tithing nonsense and some of the "standards" (that our Pastor admits to us ministers are just tradition, but he will not stop preaching b/c he feels he doesnt have the right to remove the lines the previous leaders of our movement have put up), but it is still a great church.
So do I leave a very good church that is stable and I can be saved in, just to start a small home meeting or church just over tithing and a couple standards? Do I take my children out of a church where they have a fantastic childrens program and tons of kids to a church where it may be just them alone? And how do I convince my wife, who loves the church and tends to always only see the good in things like church, that we would be better off starting a church or group that doesn't preach garbage like tithing? If shes not on board with it, then it's going to be next to impossible.
It's easy to say "just start a church that doesn't preach that stuff", or even "go find another church", but in reality...it's not easy at all. I have hoped that I could change the church from within, but I know that is not the case in these areas.
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Nitehawk, I can completely understand where your coming from, I may not answer all your concerns, but let me address at least some of them.
First, I don't think you'll find a post of me ever saying leave your church and start a work of your own, especially over the doctrine of tithing. I think it is important to correctly understand the doctrine of tithing for a number of reasons, the first of which is that a MISunderstanding of tithing, can affect how we understand the grace of God, and thus result in someone serving God out of a motivation of fear, rather than faith, and see God as a hard task master to be appeased, rather than a gracious loving Father.
I wouldn't suggest leaving a church where you are happy, stable, and most importantly growing in Christ. Anyone who really studies the word free of denomination biases is probably not going to agree with 100% of the doctrines, and especially 100% of the preachers views. Its been said no 2 preachers agree on everything, and I'd venture to say no 2 studious saints agree on everything. I do not suggest breaking fellowship. I suggest studying the issue, keeping a good spirit-even in the face of opposition or pressure to conform(should it come), let your life in Christ speak for itself.
IMO, if tithing is the no.1 doctrine that someone is worried about, I think that's a red flag about the condition of their heart. If you really want to be in a oneness church, most of them believing in tithing. Some don't, but the great majority do. So unless you are moving towards adjusting your stance on other doctrinal beliefs, I would suggest staying where you are.
I left the oneness Pentecostal church because my view of salvation changed from "3 steps" to justification by faith. I still believe in oneness, and baptism in Jesus name. I still believe in speaking in tongues (but I reject the initial evidence doctrine, and deny that all born again believers speak in tongues). I still believe in holiness and separation from the world (but deny that standards are matters of salvation, rather they are best viewed as principles that we can incorporate into our lives as we seek to be led by the Spirit).
I still enjoy Pentecostal worship, and overall have a favorable view of the Pentecostal church. If something happens in the church I'm attending/leading now, I wouldn't rule out attending a Pentecostal church again, even if they believed in tithing-but if I was involved in ministry I'd privately explain to the pastor my beliefs about tithing and giving. Actually in the last church I was in, I told the pastor upfront about my views on tithing, and it wasn't a problem. I preached there all the time, and rarely mentioned tithing, and when I did it was in passing, not in a way that would create division or controversy. I actually enjoyed my time in that church, but ultimately it seemed to be adopting some doctrines that I was uncomfortable with (I though it was leaning a bit too charismatic for me) so I choose to leave.
When I left, my #1 priority was to find a church that truly centered around the Word of God and cultivating a relationship with Jesus Christ. The church I found was totally different than the Pentecostal churches I was in, especially music/worship. When I began attending I didn't know what was going to happen. I attended for nearly a year before I was asked to do anything in the ministry. When I was approached about preaching, I was honest with the elder that I didn't believe in the trinity. I began preaching there last summer, and since late April this year I've become the primary preacher in the church (some Bible churches believe the elders run the church, and so don't always have a 'pastor'-so I'm an elder, and also do most of the preaching). I didn't build the church, start the church, and I didn't end up there over the doctrine of tithing. If I gave any of those impressions please forgive me.
But, the church I am in now believed in free will giving long before I came, and if you clicked on the website I listed, you can see that it is a very nice building/facility. Not only that it is modern, and yet completely paid off and debt free. Tithing is not a necessity, not in the least.
I also work a secular job and thus I preach for free, thus I am in no need of tithes. I'm not against a preacher taking a reasonable salary, nor am I claiming I never will-but to this point I haven't seen the need. The only downside, is sometimes I wish I had more time to study.
Plus the church is small right now, as it is trying to recover from a split over Calvinistic doctrines and some other issues (that happened before I was preaching or an elder), so again, in the event something happens in that church that necessitates my moving on, I'm not saying I'd never attend a church that believes in tithing again. So I wouldn't suggest you leave one if youre happy there.