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Originally Posted by good samaritan
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What I was meaning is Gods free gift of forgiveness is to the repentant. Gods Forgiveness is not manipulated by a sinners prayer or any other physical observances. When we repent, God freely forgives, and obedience is a continued result of repentance. Therefore, we have the example of the thief on the cross being saved.
The thief was forgiven after (faith)repentance, and if he would of lived to tell it, he would have been baptized and filled like all the rest of Christ followers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan
If people don’t become forgiven until baptism, then how do they receive baptism of the Spirit before water baptism. Your logic is that people born of the Spirit are still in their sins until water baptism.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan
Apart from baptism? Find anywhere that I said you don’t have to be baptized? I haven’t.
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Looks to me like you were saying a person is forgiven FIRST, and THEN they get baptized. Thus, "forgiven APART FROM baptism." I never claimed you were saying "you don't have to be baptized" at all, but you were making it clear that a person does not have to be baptized. IN ORDER TO BE HAVE REMISSION OF THEIR SINS, that remission of sins occurs PRIOR to being baptized.