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Old 01-27-2023, 07:30 PM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Forgiveness or Remission?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Costeon View Post
Because his Lord had commanded him to baptize people as part of making disciples and bringing them into the church.

Nothing our Lord commands is in vain.

Peter did not change his theology, but perhaps the way many understand it is not precisely like he understood it.

Three times in the early part of Acts, Luke records Peter preaching to a group of people in which he mentions receiving the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2.38; 3.19-21; 5.31.32), and in two of the three, he only mentions repentance but not baptism. Joined to this, in Luke 24.46-49, Luke records Jesus's final instructions on what Peter and the other apostles are to preach. Jesus mentions repentance and the forgiveness of sins, but not baptism. If we read Luke and Acts as Luke intended (back to back as two parts of one history), we see that within just a few pages he includes four passages that are clearly parallel in content, and in three out of four, forgiveness and repentance are mentioned, but not baptism.

Interestingly there is a variant reading at Luke 24.47, and some of the oldest manuscripts read "repentance for the forgiveness of sins.")

In light of this evidence and later how Peter says that the proof Cornelius and the other Gentiles had been cleansed by faith was they had received the Spirit, I would suggest that repentant faith and baptism do not play the same role in someone receiving the remission of sins. Repentance and faith seem indispensable in a way that baptism is not. In those parallel passages to Acts 2.38, what is absolutely essential to bringing about the remission of sins, repentance, is mentioned while what is not, baptism, is not.

This is not to suggest that baptism is optional. Even though baptism was not the place where Cornelius was forgiven, Peter still commanded him to be baptized. Baptism is commanded for all, and so all must be baptized. No one can reject baptism and be saved.

Under normal circumstances in the Book of Acts, forgiveness/remission did, in fact, come to someone by faith and repentance at baptism--not because baptism had effected the remission of sins but because it was the usual setting in which the repentance and faith that did effect it was expressed. When someone said they believed the gospel, the church at once led them to baptism. Cornelius's situation, however, was not normal circumstances. At that point, the church would not have baptized him and other Gentiles. God had to do something extraordinary and prove he had accepted them, and in doing this, it was revealed that it is possible in certain circumstances for God to bring someone to faith and repentance before baptism and so remit their sins and cleanse them before baptism. This is definitely not the pattern in Acts, though.

It is, however, certainly common now. In the circumstance when someone is led by the church to receive the Spirit before baptism (which is something that the church in Acts never led someone to do), that person must be commanded to be baptized, and if they truly have saving faith they will. I would even say in order for them to maintain their forgiveness--their cleansing received before baptism--they must be baptized.



Peter was not trying to hide anything. He focused on what strengthened his argument in that context.

I think the drive to include their entire experience in their cleansing is not rooted in carefully interpreting this passage but in bringing to it a pre-commitment to the idea that only baptism can bring about the forgiveness/remission of sins.

I know we disagree, but I appreciate the discussion and your questions that challenge me to think through my beliefs again.


Peter omits faith here, but includes repentance, baptism, and the Spirit:
Act 2:38 NKJV - (38) Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Peter omits faith, baptism, but includes repentance and what might be interpreted as the Spirit:
Act 3:19 NKJV - (19) "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
Peter includes faith, but omits repentance, baptism, and the Spirit:
Act 10:43 NKJV - (43) "To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."
Peter includes baptism, but omits faith, repentance, and Spirit:
1Pe 3:21 NKJV - (21) There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
So, according to the logic that if it is omitted is not necessary for forgiveness, then, what is included commonly in all those passages is the key, right?

Guess what it is common to all of them: nothing. So people don't need to believe, repent, be baptized, or receive the Spirit to be saved, according to Peter.

We can actually do the same with Paul and you will find surprising results.

Better hermeneutics: if it is included once, it is part of the way to be saved. The reason why it appears in some places but not in others can be explained with linguistics. We all actually practice the same phenomenon, but for whatever reason, some don't expect the biblical writers to do the same?

Last edited by coksiw; 01-27-2023 at 07:33 PM.
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