[donfriesen1]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why doesn't B. Smith go to the District Superintendent? Does B. Smith want to get licensed by the UPCI? Is Pastor John Doe's church family the only game in town? Seems like a lot of sour grapes, but no real solution other than B. Smith wanting contend for the faith with people who want to show him the door.

The whole point of this thread is to point out that in some churches the Pastor may rule on some topics, contrary to the teaching of Ro14. This counter-to-scriptural practice should be stopped in all ministers, and especially so when their Apostolic Org has already demonstrated it practices Ro14 (as per its acceptance of multiple head covering views).

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Dom asks: Why doesn't B. Smith go to the District Superintendent? Good question. Why the necessity of bothering the Org's already busy Supt when the Org he represents has already shown acceptance of multiple head covering doctrines? Why is it that those who are parts of this Org are not aware of the practice of their Org and do not follow its example? Had proper emphasis of Ro14 been shown in the Org then this visit to the Supt would not have been necessary. Pastor Doe should be/is already aware of this, but ignores it and gets away with it because the Org lets him, either wittingly or unwittingly, spiting the many verses of Ro14;15.1-7 given expressly by the Lord for situations just like this. And Dom puts on his 'Defender' hat and argues against its proper practice. If the rationale which gains Pastor Doe's acceptance in the Org is not accepted by an esteemed member of AFF, YOU, then what hope does a saint, B. Smith, have when they go to the Org (which will usually back the Pastor when it is Pastor vs saint in a topic without acknowledged guidelines) when it has no acknowledged rule which says it must. Instead, Ro14 may be ignored.

Also, where would B. Smith go if their Pastor is the Supt, who rules just like Pastor Doe? Supts are well known to be Pastor-Supts. Where to go, Dom, in the absence of the acknowledgment all should have of Ro14? If Supt Doe has wrongly determined in his heart that any opposition to his view of Ro14/'his personal head-covering view' is an attack of Satan against the Org, where will B. Smith go for the scriptural-wrong done to them when they are rejected? The unscriptural harm done to them also causes harm to the Body which they are part of it. Had Ro14 been previously acknowledged, then nought of this would have happened. Zeal for protection of the church from attacks of Satan are good but misguided when contrary to Ro14. You, Dom, would not be rewarded in Heaven for wrongly opposing the correct interpretation of Ro14, would you? Yet, apparently you wish to loose this reward.

Does B. Smith want to get licensed by the UPCI? Does Ro14 only apply when they do?

Is Pastor John Doe's church family the only game in town? What in your 'discernment system' motivates YOU asking another irrelevant question? Does Ro14 only apply if there are many churches in town? No. Would B. Smith's going to another church then suddenly solve a problem which may be practiced in many churches by multiple ministers? No. If this were only an Org issue and not a Word issue, then the Org/Man may have the answer. The Word has the answers for this Word problem: compliance by all to Ro14.


Seems like a lot of sour grapes,(I think you may speak from personal experience. Have you moved on in spirit, from a circumstance causing you sour grapes? Hypothetically, had something in your past been treated in light of Ro14, then it may have had results different than it did. Is this the reason why you many times in this thread keep referring back to the Org?, in posts 17, 20, 23, 24, 26, 28, 29) no real solution Says who? This has not been said by someone who wants to contend for the faith once delivered ("I don't visit anyone's church to contend for the faith once delivered unto the Saints." Post 20.) YOU reach your objective (no real solution), Dom, when you don't have an objective to reach. YOU don't want a solution. but no real solution other than B. Smith wanting contend for the faith with people who want to show him the door. Who has greater authority for a solution in this matter? Pastor Doe, the Supt, or Ro14? Ro14 has the authority and it shows that B. Smith should be accepted; not judged, nor rejected; with many other words used to show him as OK while holding some doctrines contrary to Pastor Doe. Ro14/the Bible does not give any Pastor authority to reject anyone, as a solution, unless on matters clearly outlined an undeniably scriptural/only one conclusion. Paul's teaching in Ro14 is only about doctrines which are not able to clearly show only one correct conclusion.

The real solution is to follow what Ro14 teaches: acceptance of all who hold contrary doctrine (on topics which are not shown as 'one' doctrines. See below about 'one'.)

Eph4.3-6 shows doctrines which are 'one'. When you have only one of anything before you, it denies the possibility of another to compare with or choose from. When given a 'one' doctrine by God/the Apostles there is no possibility of another to hold. 'One' doctrines must be accepted to be a NT follower of Jesus. Eph4 shows their acceptance of 'multiple views of the same topic' when Paul says to them "Till we all come in the unity of the faith". Paul must think they were not yet united on every view of every topic, necessitating Paul to say this, to encourage them to maintain unity on 'one' topics.

When given the left boot of disfellowship because of lack of agreement on minor topics, it creates resentment which, if not resisted, may lead to rejection of major doctrines, to spite the group which booted you. Elevation of minor views to places as major views helps create this disunity. The opposite goal, disunity, is achieved when attempting to maintain unity through enforcement of compliance to minor unproveable views. Why do you want to be in that group, Dom? You are better than that. You are a man of God. Why not join with Paul in defending the principles of Ro14?

Heb6 gives a list of elementary principles of Christ. These are the foundational 'one' doctrines of the NT. Not having these means you don't have the faith of the NT.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

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