Weird, I was going to post more thoughts (didn't post). Basically I made an analogy of us being like 2-D stick men on paper trying to figure out in 2-D what it means to be 3-D when the artists pushes a pencil through the paper (a small lead circle with a wood colored circle growing around it , and eventually a eraser colored circle - etc). We can make theories, but without being in that artists setting we simply will never full grasp it. What John saw in Revelation is certainly not clear to human eyes, nor was articulated in a way we can wrap our heads around completely. These debates are in vain in my opinion like say one trying to explain all the fine details to a young child about how to be an adult. They have to grow to full maturity to get it all, and further more move beyond the theory and experience it for themselves. The earthly tabernacle and law was only a shadow of things in Heaven. So too the believer will never wholly grasp this concept until eternity with Jesus face to face. The best we can do is make illustratations and analogies which fall short of being 100% non-confusing.