[mizpeh]

Adino,

When we begin to think of spiritual death we attempt to understand what it means for the human spirit to have "died" because of the Fall. We attempt to again grasp the idea of separation and what it meant for the Spirit of God to have departed from the spirit of man breaking a once existing union between the two.

What do you mean by the bolded part?

When the human spirit departs from the physical body only a lifeless vestige of the real person remains. In like fashion, the Spirit of Life departed from the human spirit leaving only a darkened shadow of God's real intended creation. The intended creation involved fellowship with God through a union of His Spirit with ours.

When did this union take place? Are you referring to a similar type of union which we have now with God when we are filled with the Spirit of Christ?

But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 1Cor 6:17

Sin broke union of man's spirit with God by forcing that which was holy to depart. Sin brought separation - the wage of Sin was death.

I think most on this forum would agree with this so far. Some might even think this elementary.

Hmmm, I guess I'm not too quick to catch on. Are you speaking about Adam and God in the garden of Eden? Why do you think Adam was filled with the Holy Spirit? What scripture tells us this?

Sin brought separation - now let's focus on reunion and get to a question.

In order for the human spirit to become alive again there must be a reestablishment of the union between the human spirit and God. The human spirit must be quickened to life by virtue of being united with the Spirit of God. For this to take place that which causes separation must be removed.

You haven't proved your point about the union between the human spirit and God. I agree sin separates us from God because the Bible clearly states it so.

Since the holy nature of God prohibits union with anything considered sinful, how is it the theology of many on this forum seems to suggest that God can dwell in and/or become unified with a heart which has not had sin removed?

Is this not precisely what most here would say happened in the case of Cornelius in Acts 10 and happens to anyone who speaks in tongues prior to being water baptized?

We all are encased in sinful flesh. By your logic I wonder how God can dwell in us since we have sin abiding/dwelling in our flesh.

Romans 7:17-23 NASV So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.


Not everyone would agree with you because some folks believe we are forgiven at repentance and sins are remitted at baptism.

I understand forgiveness and remission to be the same Greek word, so yes, if you are filled with the Spirit before water baptism then your sins still need to be blotted out. I'm not sure I have ever heard anyone preach on how our hearts or consciences are sin stained. Or what does the Bible means by 'the body of sin' that is removed by the circumcision of the Spirit which happens at water baptism. What is meant by the 'body of sin' which is always associated with burial and water baptism.

Col 2:11-12 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Romans 6:3-6 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


Is having a body of sins that needs to be blotted out or remitted or forgivne the same as being a sinner?

As for Cornelius, Peter said: Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him Acts 10:34-35

Cornelius was accepted of God and worked righteousness. He was not sinning actively with forethought.


A couple of questions for you. How do you interpret these scriptures?

Acts 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Acts 15:7-9....Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.