[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

I have a ton of comments, but as time permits. I agree with you assessment of Tertullian's view of the logos. But I think Justin Martyr had a more personified view of the logos pre-incarnate... not like Tertullian's view of the "reason within".

What and who do you believe was the "Church" during the dark ages? Could there not have been an unbroken chain of "oneness" people throughout that period of time? I think there were, it's just that history distorts their doctrine and teachings.

Also, I think Praxeas' view of father and son is being exaggerated by Tertullian. I think probably since Tertullian wrote in Latin, and Praxeas probably spoke and wrote in Greek, that they were simply explaining their modalistic concepts in their own way of saying it. It's like two men who basically believe the same thing, using different terms, and talking past each other. For instance, on the Jesus incarnation thread in Fellowship Hall, you, I Blume, and Strange were all adhering to the oneness of God, the humanity of Jesus Christ, the end of the kenosis etc.... but one accused the other of dualism, and another made accusations back of something else. What we have during this time of apologists, is the striving for mastery of monologue and arguments. IOW, who can mount the best argument, or who can win the debate. Since Praxeas was against Montanus, and Tertullian was M.'s apologist, perhaps he intentionally set out to "defeat" Praxeas, and capture the theological prominence for himself and his movement? All the while Prax and Tert are actually believing the same, or nearly the same thing. I don't believe Tert's description of Prax's view of father and son means he didn't see or show a distinction, I think it is simply that Tert accused him of not showing a distinction. And in his eloquent writing style, which has survived through the centuries, he has "won" the debate between the two. It could be a lesson on the nature of humanity and stife among us rather than an actualy example of doctrinal treatise. Anyway, I am going to delve into "Against Praxeas" more and see what I find. Is there a interlinear copy somewhere? That would be greatly helpful!!!

Well like I said, Tertullian was opposed to Praxeas because Praxeas was successful in converting the Bishop of Rome against Montanism...could it be his attacks were exaggerated against Praxeas for that reason?

I don't believe it can be proven an unbroken chain of people who believed in a Modalistic or Oneness view nor do I believe it is necessary. Do I believe it is possible there could have been people in each century that had a modalistic view of the Godhead and yet not been reported in the annals of history? Of course it is possible. There are many Trinitarians now that have a Modalistic view of the godhead.

JM's view of the Son makes him seem like a secondary figure that has a beginning before the creation of the world...We should start a thread on JM