Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost and Found
I still do not see where Strong's errs. EB brings up an interesting point in that "Israel" has a multifaceted definition. But I think a key here is that when Jacob's name was changed to "Israel," the Bible never uses that new name when referring to the man, Jacob. Remember, it says He is the God of Abraham (new name), Jacob (old name, not Israel), and Isaac. Jacob stayed Jacob even after the name change. The name ‘Jacob’ referred to the fleshly man, Jacob, and the name 'Israel' referred to 'the promise,' which is Jesus. Remember, Jesus said when a person searches the scriptures they find that they testify of Him. So we know that it's all about Jesus. Jesus is the door through which all believers must come. He is also the true Israel through which all those in the true Israel of God must come. Once we enter into Jesus through the New Covenant, we then become part of Jesus' body, which is juxtaposition with being members of the True Israel of God.
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Interesting move in the discussion. The issue never really involved who or what Jesus is, was, or will be. It is, however, in translating and interpreting scriptures accurately and with integrity, not according to preconceived church dogma, doctrine, or a personal belief system.
Even when the conclusions may be correct, doing violence to scripture is not the way to achieve it. When violence is done unintentionally, then education is all that is required. When violence is done to achieve a personal agenda, then correction is required.
The only issue before this forum is: Does the word Israel mean, "He rules as God"? That is what I took exception to - if one will take the time to review my comments. The answer is still, no, not according to the reason and purpose given by God.
Gen 32:24-32. Which is included in my rendering from the Tanakh Hebrew in an earlier post. From this point, please contend directly with the original author.
A slightly better translation would be:
24 ¶ (32:25) And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 (32:26) And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was strained, as he wrestled with him.
26 (32:27) And he said: ‘Let me go, for the day breaketh.’ And he said: ‘I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.’
27 (32:28) And he said unto him: ‘What is thy name?’ And be said: ‘Jacob.’
28 (32:29) And he said: ‘Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel; for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed.’
29 (32:30) And Jacob asked him, and said: ‘Tell me, I pray thee, thy name.’ And he said: ‘Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name?’ And he blessed him there.
30 (32:31) And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: ‘for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.’
31 (32:32) And the sun rose upon him as he passed over Peniel, and he limped upon his thigh.
32 (32:33) Therefore the children of Israel eat not the sinew of the thigh-vein which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day; because he touched the hollow of Jacob’s thigh, even in the sinew of the thigh-vein.
[JPS edition]