Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunni
Errr...my sunny side has dissolved...
I accept that many of you have dissenting opinions about Tulsa... I even enjoy reading the viewpoints sometimes of the intelligent or common sense posters for either side...In addition, I highly respect ministers who send their cards to Hazelwood and now also those who mail to Tulsa...
However, those who claim to know the hearts of the Tulsa organizers are wrong- you do not. Many of us, however, know some or all of the Tulsa 6... (However on a different scale than those who claim to be their friends and then proceed to demolish their characters- Or those who do not judge, but think they can speak for them because they preached for them, or they spoke with them one time, or et. etc. etc. etc.)
Many of the Tulsa six are beloved Men of God...for a reason. Some of us, including me, have often sat with them, laughed with them, and even been pastored by them... To some of you, that apparently makes me a spiritual sissie under the leadership of a legalistic dictator... anyway....
I can say this about one of them in particular- he loves souls more than anyone I have ever known...I am a Bible College grad, and have been under many ministers, but he has taught me more than anyone about sacrifice and love for the lost. He has mentored my husband as he first ventured into ministry, and he built a church in a city without truth...he is not the only one. You do not know all their sacrifices...you do not know their relationship with God, you do not know their motives, and you certainly do not know their hearts!
There are saints that read these words (the Tulsa 6 have seen many souls saved under their ministries- do you doubt that?) and hurt to see the motives of men questioned so acidly. These are men who heard the cry of a city and answered; who sacrificed and gave years of their lives in storefront churches, working alternate jobs, raising families where they knew so few, and living for the weekend when maybe the waitress they invited and then laid beside their bed and prayed for that night would show up and fill an empty chair... You did not see the tears in their eyes as she prayed through to the Holy Ghost, and you did not hear the sobbing of intercessory pastor when he saw souls slide...
Some of these men are pastoring very obviously successful churches- how sad that you think that can be done by men who 'only desire power and prestige.' Power trips and prestige parties do not build churches...Can I get a true church planter to say "Amen"!? .... You may wonder at the reason they felt the need to step out, and you may even disagree- that is life- but apply some logic... A few of you seem to enjoy dissecting fictional hearts!
I know some of the men...They have EARNED my respect by their love for souls... A love that I have witnessed repeatedly first hand...I know them, but not their hearts- only God does... I do, however, know that I trust their hearts in this matter... You may not know them enough to trust their judgement- I understand that.
Just remember- some of the six are or have been pastors...with pastors' hearts...Organizations of WPF or UPC does not change the fact that they go home and sit at the sides of grieving families, they visit the sick, they pray for their sheep, they reach out even when they are weary, they keep pushing on for that next soul... THEY PASTOR...and when a man does that right, he earns the love of his saints and those he mentors... I do know personally, that some of these men are doing that right, witnessed by the love of their true friends and saints...
That speaks louder to me than any of you who 'claim' to know their hearts...
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Good post. As you say, only God knows the heart. It is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it?
We also know that while God sees the heart, all we can view is the outward appearances.
This is what people are questioning, and they have every right to do so. There is a massive loss of brotherhood and fellowship, not to mention a strong dose of confusion inherent in this "fellowship".
Why are they leaving if they can stay? Why push so hard to separate if members can remain tied to previous affiliations? I have seen the toll this decision has taken on ministerial families all over the country, including in the families of some of the founders. It is frankly confusing to me. These are not personal attacks, and all who do so should be castigated, but the are honest questions.
I am a conservative, and voted against the TV resolution. We do not have one, our saints do not. We are as conservative as most in Tulsa. I would go as far as to say there are a vastly greater proportion of "holiness" men staying within the ranks of the UPC than those joining the WPF.
If the UPC were to ever abandon its fundemental moorings, I would say goodby and not look back. I would not keep one foot in the group headed the wrong way, and place one in an organization going the right way. What is the point of that? It is double minded and duplicitous.
These highly intelligent men of strong conviction who are forming the WPF have to know this. They should say so. Why do they not. Could it be you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?
Though my respect for founders I know is great, my dismay over this splintering of relationship is greater.
So, we will continue to probe for the truth, not by questioning the hearts, but be examining the deeds.