Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah
Well, I've been reading this post for over an hour!
Pelathais, if you had not missread Steadfast's post, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I knew exactly what he was saying, the first time I read it.
If you think for one minute that we are not having trouble with some of our young people 'experimenting' with alcohol and fornication, think again. It seems rampant in some areas. Sad, but true.
Nice to see you defending the UPCI! Why the change of heart? Glad to see it.........
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Thank you Sarah. And no, I don't feel that I "misread" his post. The alcohol and fornication that you mention is sadly a problem everywhere, and from what I have been able to determine, it's been a problem at least since the days that the apostles' wrote about it.
What I objected to was the inference that these things are openly tolerated. The idea that a pastor was using someone on the platform who was "shacking up with young men" and such. This was given as an example of the things that cause the Tulsa men to feel "almost pushed out" about.
As far as a "change of heart" maybe you're just getting to know me better. I have criticized the UPC and probably will continue to have opinions about them for a long time to come. However, from my perspective, the cases of "tolerating sin" have always been isolated cases and kept under wraps by those at the local level. In just about every case such as this, the real victim ended up being the UPC itself. I have advocated speaking out about these cases.
I have also confessed the hurt that I brought to my own DS many years ago when I simply walked away and kept silent about an issue. At the time I thought that I was doing what I was "supposed" to do. Speaking up would have caused a real mess in a local church. As it was, the mess was found out any way; but by not trusting my DS I made his job a lot harder.
To my knowledge there has never been any district wide "conspiracy" to support or promote those enmired in sin, or even cases of young people living in sin leaving one church to go and minister on the platform of another "without ever backsliding" and where this was supported by a pastor. I simply question whether that happened. Did the pastor really know about it? Or is this just a dispute between two preachers about punishment and restoration? Tarring the UPC over such a dispute is wrong, in my view.
There has been and also will be a healthy debate about restoration and punishment, but I have never seen the org. as a whole commit itself to promoting sin. I'm willing to be surprised by any evidence to the contrary, but until then I remain skeptical about it based upon my experience in working at just about every level of the UPC, both within districts and at WEC.
They're not perfect. But they won't knowingly put up with sin either.