[gloryseeker]

Took awhile, but good post!

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I agree with your principle for the most part even if I disagree with your hermeneutics at times.

In all honesty I would say that I am in a major minority in the hermeneutics arena, but I would also say that people are constantly amazed at how the Word works for me.

I have found that most Christians want to eternalize all the promises of God and I just believe that God wants me blessed, healed, delivered, and manifesting His glory. Having said that I'm going to stick with my hermeneutics....they're working.

Mark 10: It's such an odd passage to use I think for your position because it doesn't really cohere. Even more so when Mark has so much to say about poor people being blessed in spite of their poorness. On the one hand JC seems to say we'll get 100X in houses and lands. But then he also says you'll get 100X mothers, and sisters, and brothers and persecutions. That's more than most prosperity guys will want to claim, especially the persecution part. And certainly non of the Apstoles, the original audience, of this passage could lay claim to vast riches although they could testify to persecution. The word used for "houses" here refers more to "home villiage". Thus I think the primary thrust of this passage is that JC is promising a kingdom, a new set of relationships, a new covenent land if the gave up their temporal things to follow him. In the context they were focused on physical, temporal wealth and power and as so often is the case JC was trying to get them out of this temporal thinking to re-imagine his kingdom in a new terms and in doing so he used temporal terms to describe it.

Interesting analysis. I really enjoyed reading it.

Regarding Adam and Eve they did lose authority and dominion and all that. It's part of the curse. JC came as the new Adam not help us find happiness in temporal things but to show that true happiness and abundance of life is found in the here and now but in a spiritual sense.

I would have to disagree with you, and I would think that my disagreement would be a major reason why you disagree with my interpretation of other scriptures.

Most Christians focus on salvation as the purpose, I don't. Salvation is the need. Basis of thought, when God created Adam and gave him all power, authority, and dominion Adam operated or revealed the glory of God in the earth. This is the purpose....the revealing of God.

When Adam sinned there became a "need" which was salvation. Jesus came to break the separation between God and man so that once again man could reveal the glory of God in the earth. 2 Cor 4:7 / Eph 3:20 both speak to the power that operates through us.

This life has nothing to do with happiness or abundance, it has everything to do with revealing God. Many look at Adam/Eve as having lost the garden. They didn't lose the garden, they lost the ability to walk with God. The garden was the benefit of walking with God.

This is where many miss it on the prosperity of God. There are manifestations that take place when one walks with God. My interpretations always stems from the revealing of Christ in us, and not focused on my salvation.

In the OT and the NT God made SOME people wealthy, not all. He does this according to his good pleasure and, as you say, its purpose is to bless the kingdom.

I agree with you that in both the OT and NT some are wealthy and some are not. Where I disagree with you is that the determination of who was wealthy and who wasn't was in the hand of God.

If you are correct then God is a respecter of persons and He has lied. A Covenant is an agreement. In this agreement God states what He will do and what we have to do. Faith is the receiver God gave us to access all of His promises. The ability to be wealthy or not be wealthy is in the hands of the believer.

As one post stated in the tithe thread, "I don't expect anything in return for my tithe." Praise God they won't receive anything, which is also why they struggle. Personally I don't believe, I expect God to hold up His end of the covenant.

Another person made a post that we aren't supposed to own anything expensive....he never will. I do own expensive things and God has given me every one of them. He also knows that if He asks He can have whatever I have. For instance, my wife and I sold a home one time and we were not sure what we wanted to buy so we were temporarily renting. We had kept $28K in the bank for the deposit, costs, fix-ups or whatever. He spoke to me to sow it - we did. No questions, no hesitations. I'll sell my home in a heartbeat if He wants. All I am is a steward of His stuff and He gives me good stuff.

The Apostle Paul is a prime example. He lived pretty much and to mouth and didn't even have a second cloak. Yet he was happy and learned to live in poverty and in abundance.

The Apostle Paul is an interesting character. Many misunderstand him and his ministry. The revelation of grace was revealed to Paul. Grace is another misunderstood aspect, but that's another thread. Paul had a specific ministry:

Acts 9:15-16
15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
(KJV)

Part of Paul's calling was to suffer great things for the Name of Christ in order to reveal how grace works. Many try to use the aspect that he had to work to make a case that those in the five-fold should hold down an outside job. However, Paul told the Corinthians that he made them an inferior church because he was not a burden to them. He said, "forgive me for this wrong." (2 Cor 12:13)

You can't look at what Paul suffered and say that we all must suffer in like manner unless you have been called to the same ministry.

...part II in next post