[gloryseeker]

Your ref in Eph doesn't work because it isn't referring to this age, it's referring to the coming age.

This is a prime example how people like to eternalize everything. The reason that I believe people like to eternalize (throw into eternity) is so they don't have to give an account for why their faith isn't working.


Eph 1:15-23
15 For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which {exists} among you, and your love for all the saints,
16 do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention {of you} in my prayers;
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

• You are not going to need the spirit of wisdom or a revelation of the knowledge of Him in the age to come. You will have by definition of being with Him. We need this now so that we can operate correctly in this world.

18 {I pray that} the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. {These are} in accordance with the working of the strength of His might

• The surpassing greatness of His power is toward us who believe. Do you believe? They this power is for you. This is in accordance with the working of His might, not will be in accordance.

20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly {places}

• This was brought about when Christ was raised. It is not a future thing, it is a now thing.

21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come.

• "not only in this age" Again this is a now thing!

22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,

• If you are in Christ then you are positioned with Christ, now and also in the age to come.

23 which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all. (NAS)

The church is the fulness of Him. Jesus walked in all power, authority, and dominion. We're His Body and we have the right to walk in everything He walked in because the purpose is to reveal the glory of God. This is why Jesus was the first born of many brethren....I'm one of those brethren!

Again, the Deut ref's don't work because they're not written to us.

I guess I'm like the bubble bee. I'm just foolish enough to believe that it was written for me and guess what.....it works!

All the Bible is written for us, but not all the Bible is written to us.

You'll never experience the promise that you don't believe were written to you.

If you're willing to take the blessings then you have to accept the curses too.

Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
(KJV)

I take the blessings and leave the curse behind

I see your point in 2 Cor 9 about sufficiency. But you defend my point when you define "need' correctly. We have to remember that in that time more than 95% of the people in the known world lived in what we would call poverty according to US/Western standards of living.

I agree with you here. Many will misunderstand me because I believe strongly in the prosperity of the Word and I live it also. But money means absolutely nothing to me. I also know that the poorest of America are typically better off than those of other countries.

But again, money and comfort mean nothing to me. My need is to see the Kingdom of God reach it's fullness. The so called needs of my life are God's responsibility. I have found that He is perfectly capable of taking care of me and my family and He actually does it at a much higher level than I would on my own.

And these are the things God has promised to meet for us, needs. Not wants or wishes and luxury. If we have food, clothing, and shelter we have our needs being met.

Again, this is where I will differ with most people because my focus is not comfort or luxury. However, I expect to fly first class, I expect to eat in nice restaurants (and by the way I am a big tipper), I expect my house to be nice, and I expect to have nice clothes.

Not because of comfort, but because I am a child of the King created to manifest His glory. Which is the better testimony of an Almighty God, driving around in a BMW and being debt free or driving around in a Yugo held together by Christian bumper stickers?

You see, I don't want the God of the Muslims because their god is full of hate and bondage. I don't want the god of the JW because their god doesn't do anything anymore. Why should the world want the God of most born again Christians when the divorce rate is higher within the church than without, Christians can't pay their bills, the number of Christians on anti-depressants is just about the same as non-Christians?

Why is it that waiter/waitresses don't want to wait on Christians? THEY'RE BROKE AND TIGHT! This is not my God. My God is rich, He blesses, and He is not afraid to show it.

I agree that God will often times reward people financially as they give cheerfully to the kingdom in order for them to be a conduit of financial blessing to various works.

It's not a "reward" it's a result. God will not allow His Word to return to Him void. God has bond Himself to His Word. What you believe you will submit to and according to James 4 God give more grace to the humble, submit yourself therefore!

and use your time of abundance to bless the kingdom.

I like the way you word that as though...your time will come to an end and you'll see what I'm talking about.

My time isn't spent blessing the Kingdom, my life is spent on it.

[QUOTE]But we can't project our gifts onto other people and expect them to be like us. It's not so much a matter of faith as much as it is a matter of place.[\QUOTE]

What we are talking about is faith not gifts. While I do believe there is a gift for finances, that is not what we are talking about. Faith receives what grace has provided. We receive from the Lord according to our faith and place has nothing to do with it.

There is nothing in the Word that tells you that you have to be poor. If a person applies the Word, lives right, and operates in faith they will experience increase.

...that I have several people blessed w/your gift of wealth in my church when I start it.

You'll only have it if you teach it. Faith comes by hearing the Word. If the Word they hear is a Word that some will and some won't - they will accept that they can't.

Enjoyable conversation!