Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
First, please show us where the bible says none of the 12 were baptized. In fact if you understand discipleship you would know that they WERE baptized. John baptized HIS disciples and Jesus baptized HIS and then HIS disciples went out and baptized others.
Second, the bible never says Jesus never baptized anyone
How did Cornelius receive the Spirit? Same way King Saul did maybe? BTW Nobody here said to not be baptized makes one a degenerate sinner. A sinner is someone that has not repented.
Prove we can't derive doctrine from a historical book. Even the gospels are historical
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Prax, the problem with assumative doctrine is that it creates imaginative scenarios. We cannot assume either way. However, what we do NOT have is what can be relied upon. You cannot create fact from fiction.
If God wanted us to know and His salvation for us depended on it, he would of made sure it was given to us plainly.
We do not have any record of Jesus baptizing, of the disciples baptizing in Jesus' name, and also Paul was "glad" he did not baptize.
With regard to DG's comment concerning doctrine from "historical narrative"; any biblical scholar will tell you doctrine cannot be derived from "historical narrative". Chiefly, because these are narratives which summarized the actual message and are unreliable. Doctrine must only be derived from "didactic text" which teaches on the authority of other scriptures.
DG did not say "historical books", he said "historical narratives".
When Peter preached, he preached not from his authority concerning Messiah, but from the authority of prophetic text. The Rabbi's taught not on their authority, but on the authority of other Rabbi's. A Rabbi never spoke on his own authority.
Today in Catholicism, if the Pope speaks for God, he must speak from the authority of God's word, the host of Pope's who have come before him, the council of Bishop's and the Church before his word can be considered "God's word to the Church".
This is why they were amazed at his speech (Jesus) because he spoke as one having authority, not as the scribes.
Authoritative speech is know today as "precedent". Any lawyer going before a judge must present his case with precedent. He speaks on the authority of the law which has come before him. The Apostles did not invent salvation by grace, their doctrine was derived from a host of prophetic text (didactic) (teaching) which spoke before them.
"Didactic" text is scripture which teaches from authority. Narratives are un-realiable sources of information upon which to create doctrine in and of themselves. Only when these narratives speak with authority from historical didactic texts are they reliable.