Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
TimLan's assertion is ridiculous. He asserted that "three steppers" believe sins are forgiven when someone speaks in tongues!
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He's not far from the truth ....
I think there is a notion that if one completes steps one and two but is hung up on not being able to speak in tongues and hence be born again/saved it's because you were never forgiven in the first place because your repentance wasn't "genuine" or full ...
Bernard makes this assertion in his New Birth book also ...
Quote:
Guidelines for Altar Work
It is important that those who pray with seekers at the altar have a correct understanding of repentance. Below are some practical guidelines based on our discussion.
(1) We should emphasize the moving of God's Spirit, not gimmicks or techniques. Special phrases or motions cannot substitute for repentance.
(2) We should attempt to discern where the seeker is spiritually. If he has not fully repented, we should not prematurely force him to express joy and expect the Spirit. Once he has repented, then we can encourage him to praise God and believe for the Spirit.
(3) We can put ourselves in the seeker's position and pray with him. This will show him how to pray and will help us pray with a burden.
(4) If the seeker does not seem to be making progress, there may be several problems, each of which requires a different approach. The problem may be a failure to understand what repentance is, a refusal to surrender everything to God, a lack of desire (hunger, desperation, sense of urgency), a lack of godly sorrow, or a lack of faith.
(5) We must not try to teach him how to speak in tongues. This sign will come as the Spirit gives utterance. Instead of stressing only that he should yield his tongue to God, we should stress that he should surrender his whole mind and life to God. When the seeker yields everything to God, concentrates totally on Him, and exercises faith, he will be able to yield his tongue to God.
(6) Let us avoid distracting practices such as shaking the seeker, pounding him, forcing him to do certain things, giving conflicting advice, or otherwise annoying him. People often repent and receive the Spirit in spite of, not because of, the altar workers.
If the seeker is sincere and ready to repent, he will receive the Spirit in a short time. If he does not, there is something lacking in his repentance or in his faith. In such a case, altar workers need to be spiritually sensitive and knowledgeable so they can help him overcome these difficulties.
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I find this very troubling .... in one breathe he says repentance is a full turning and is must be genuine.... yet this turning is capable through totally concentrating on him (mental assent?) in an altar session then one's tongue will be yielded to the Spirit ... and one is quickened to life .... but still dead in sin if not water baptized????
I find even more puzzling if this person has not yet been fully forgiven ... having not been baptized ... but is eligible to be filled w/ God's Spirit indwelling them while still dead in sin or completely forgiven.
And how does an altar worker fully discern in a 10 minute prayer session where a seeker is ...spiritually ... This seems very odd. Also the task in placing this salvational moment of tongue talking on the shoulders of an altar worker in convincing a seeker that they are not fully repented and yet says that one receives the Spirit in spite of the workers ....
this is all .... well ....
The dilemmas presented here are too obvious. The assumptions "wrapped in spiritual discernment" made here can also be disastrous and/or discouraging to the new believer to the point where they can walk away thinking they are not "saveable" ....
This has been stated by many who did not speak in tongues "right away".