[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I think you've got something mixed up here, Bro. "They" ("so-called Calvinists") do believe in predestination and they do believe that GOD and not man makes the choice of who believes. This is the Doctrine of Election.

Personally, I find Calvinism to be incomplete here. Both views are correct, IMHO.


Instead of looking at the ideas as opposing viewpoints, one on one side of a line on a piece of paper and the the other on the other side of the line; how about trying to put the ideas into three dimensional space?

Instead of a black and white world with a shade of gray representing "flirting" with an idea; how about looking at all the colors of the spectrum?

The idea of predestination is argued quite strongly and emphatically by Paul. Yet even Paul sought to persuade people to do something with the Gospel. I see both views as being correct - simultaneously. It's a fundamental paradox. We are dealing with the mind of God, here.

Will the Almighty be surprised at who makes it into heaven? You remember the old yarn? The people who you thought were going to make it won't and those you didn't think would make it do? Will God be among the surprised? Of course not. He already knows about the victory and the overcoming stregnth that you and I have only begun to tap into.

That's one the the cool things I find in the so-called "Calvinist" view, though it's much older than Calvin and goes back to Augustine and before him, Paul. God has confidence in my victories. That means I will be victorious. Of course, to actually achieve that victory I still have to actually do something.

But with the fear of ultimate failure gone, I feel a great deal more confident when I do those things that I ought.

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

These two verses fit in with what you are saying.

It sounds like you're a little more balanced now. Too bad he felt the need to "interupt" your preaching.

Sadly, in my own church my pastor and others would sometimes interrupt my preaching to "provide balance." I was preaching, "It's All in Him..." and not just "the fullness of the Godhead," all our hope, all our dreams and all of our salvation. It's all in Him!

Prov 15:11 Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?


The Almighty judge of the whole world knows the final destination of every soul. He knew it before He created the world.