Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
The above is evidence of an entirely faulty manner of reading Romans 1. Romans 1 is not written in this manner described above. It is listing why idolatry was associated with homosexuality. It is not saying all homosexuals are so due to idolatry. God gives a general sweep over the entire thought of homosexuality and calls it vile affection, and state of living that God considered punishment to which he gives up an idolator. Whether a homosexual claims to love God or not, the bible said homosexualilty is a vile affection.
So we cannot take Romans 1 and claim it is only speaking about homoseuxals who also are idolators and hatred towards God. Paul stated that God saw people's idolatry and wickedness and gave them up to vile affections. The vile affections were vile affections with or without the idolatry. The vile affections were completely aside from the idolatry, as a form of lifestyle that was considered punishment for people who did commit hatred towards God and idolatry. The vile affection has to exist apart from idolatry, in other words, for God to take idolators and "give them up" to those vile affections. In other words, the vile affections have to be considered vile in and of themselves in order for Paul to write the way the did and say men with men and women with women was what God gave people over to as a form of punishment to them.
If homosexuailty was innocent in and of itself, then why in the world would God ever give someone over to it as though it? What punishment would there be in that? It would be as silly as saying, God judged idolators so He gave them over to a kindness toward puppy dogs. God does not give people over to what would be innocent activities when he deals with sinners.
But, generally speaking, homsoexuality as a vile affection is classed amongst the following:
God also gave them up to uncleanness
God gave them up unto vile affections
God gave them over to a reprobate mind
Anything innocent in and of itself would not be something God "gives one up" to.
Paul said homosexuality is "dishonour their own bodies between themselves:" That is totally apart from idolatry, again. He would not use that language if homosexuality was innocent. There is nothing physically different in the activity of homosexuals apart from having ever been idolators and the activity of homosexuality that was a result from God giving people over to it. To speak of defiling their own bodies between themselves, and the manner in which Paul speaks of this in this context, simply indicates the act itself is ungodly, whether idolatry was involved or not. |
Actually, Brother Blume, the context of
Romans 1:18-32 suggests that the entire list of sins from 1:26 to 1:32 stems from humanity's first forays into idolatry those many thousands of years ago. The only proper reading of
Romans 1:18-32 is to read it as a progression starting with humanity's rejection of God and worshiping the Creation instead of the Creator and continuing on through various sexual sins (such as homosexuality) and the various other sins on that list. Throughout scripture there appears to be a direct connection between idolatry and sexual sin (not just homosexuality). This, of course, doesn't make homosexuality "innocent" (particularly since there is no such thing as "innocent" after that first sin in the Garden of Eden) but it does seem to suggest to us how these particular sins came to exist. It also doesn't mean that one need be an idolater to engage in any of the sins on that list in
Romans 1:26-32. I agree that Paul wasn't just talking about idolaters who just happen to also have been engaging in homosexual sin or who had been engaging in homosexual sin in connection with pagan worship practices, he was talking about homosexuals in general, just as in 1:28-32 he was talking about other kinds of sinners irrespective of whether or not they were engaged in idolatry.