[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

First, I don't believe in Joel Osteen's self-help back massaging. Nor do I believe in a clenched-fist presentation of the Gospel. I DO believe in "love talk." How did Jesus present the Kingdom?

You threw up so many scriptures that are independent of each other that it would be quite difficult for me to go through each one on this post. I'll address only a few:


Who is the audience? Who is the "generation of vipers" he is speaking out against?

That was my point. I said it depends on the audience. Grace to the humble, law to the proud etc etc.

This is your text to justify scare tactics and emotional manipulation, ends-justify-the-means approaches to sharing the Good News?

No this is my text to justify preaching/teaching what the bible does to those that need to hear it

Luke 10 -- this wasn't an appeal for them to come to salvation. These were groanings of Jesus. From what I read, it wasn't even a sermon.

We run short on proof-texts because altar calls (altar showdowns) have no biblical precedent -- at all. nada. none.

warning people to turn to God or repent is a biblical precedent. Alter calls simply became a convenient way to lead people to Christ or repentance or an opportunity to be prayed for. Of course they can stay in their pews and do that too.

As far as revelation. This letter from John was HOPE not FEAR to the churches. I would wager that what makes people geek out into decoding the letter, that to most of Christianity in that day, was understood. The encoding of the letter was so that the letter would not bring consequences on them if it were interecepted by authorities. It is Hope. I'd dare say they read it, dragging people by the coat collar to the altars.

As I said, it was a warning. It wasn't all just preaching the gospel or "I love you"...God's love is essential, but not all people come to God just because you tell them "God loves you", generally unless they are really in a bad place and feeling lonely or something. What is the reason why we come to God? We come because we are sinners and He died for us and provides for us the means to become saved. Being told we are sinners or being guilty of sins is met with the Love of God. Law to the proud, grace to the humble.

Certain kinds of preaching will bring a person to a realization that they are lost and worthy of death

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

As I said, it depends on who we are addressing and the pressing need they have. Do they need to hear or know they are sinners and separated from the Love of God and worth of Judgment? Maybe, maybe not. Or maybe they know that and need to hear the good news.

Same with church members as Revelation shows us. What do they need to hear? A dire warning? Or words of encouragement? We find all that in those letters

Your note about Felix. It began with this in v24 He sent for Paul and listened to him as he spoke about faith in Christ Jesus. I can't help but believe Felix's fear was not stemmed only from the judgement talk, which is implied, but a fear we've seen in people who begin to "see it." The Kingdom is presented to them and they have to make a choice. Felix is a corrupt and evil man, hoping even that these talks would produce a bribe from Paul, and instead he finds himself in conviction. There's nothing here about Paul using fear to control Felix, and of course nothing of an emotional altar call showdown.

Sill, we have a written example that Paul spoke to him, in the matters of Christ included "And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and the Judgment to come"

Paul felt this audience needed to hear that