View Single Post
Old 01-23-2022, 01:38 AM
votivesoul's Avatar
votivesoul votivesoul is offline

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WI
Posts: 5,270
Re: Romans 9:5 - understanding the English AV text

Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Trinitarians assume "Son" refers to a divine person known as God the Son without direct reference to the incarnation. So whenever the Son is addressed as God they immediately refer it to "the second divine person" rather than to the Man from Galilee.

Psalm 45:1-5 KJV
My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. [2] Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. [3] Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty. [4] And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things. [5] Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.

The Psalm is essentially a wedding psalm for the king of Israel. Verse 2 says God has blessed the king unto the ages.

Psalm 45:6-7 KJV
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The question is "What is verse 6 saying?" Is it an interruption, a benediction of praise to God inserted into the psalm? Possibly.

Or is it a declaration that the king is "God"? Yet not in the sense that the king is Jehovah, but elohim?

The word elohim, usually translated "God" or "god" is occasionally applied to mortal human rulers. For example, Ex 21:6 uses elohim to refer to the judges/rulers, and Gen 23:6 calls Abraham an "elohim prince" (elohim translated as mighty).

Which would mean the king is being styled "elohim" the same way Abraham and the rulers/judges were, as a term expressing one who has power and authority. In this case, verse 7 is a reference to Jehovah. Which is why it says "therefore God - even thy God..." etc.

And this would mean that the psalm 45 citation in Hebrews is not pointing specifically to the Son being incarnate Deity (that point being made elsewhere) but that the Son has been anointed and blessed "above all thy fellows", and that His throne (dominion or reign) is eternal.

Now it is quite possible that Psalm 45:6 is being used in a somewhat oblique manner to indicate the Son's divine nature, but we shouldn't take that in a trinitarian sense (second person of a trinity) because trinitarian thought had not developed, and therefore cannot possibly what the apostle was trying to say. Instead, like several other instances in Scripture, the ambiguity of the old testament language is used to suggest lines of thought that reveal Christological themes that would likely have been beyond the original author's intention. An example of this would be Matthew 2:15 quoting Hosea 11:1.

That the Son has a God is without any controversy, He affirmed it Himself repeatedly. But when trinitarian concepts of the Son being an eternal divine second person of a trinity are introduced, that's when problems develop. Why? Because such concepts render the Sonship independent of the human nature of Jesus. Biblically, the Son is ALWAYS including the human nature in view, it cannot be separated from His humanity.

The Son is God because the man is the human manifestation of Jehovah. The Son has a God because the man is indeed a man, who serves and obeys Jehovah.
Winner, winner, Chicken Dinner.

I think you have it absolutely correct, particularly the use of elohim and its applied sense to other beings, even humans, apart from the God of Israel.

The question then is, does Paul in Romans 9:5, or other writers of the NT, for that matter, use theos in the same way, as various OT authors used elohim?
For anyone devoted to His fear:
Reply With Quote