[Michael The Disciple]

Esaias

This is where I think your understanding of the Logos, and my understanding of the Logos, may differ. I do not believe the Logos was "created". I believe "in the beginning was the Logos... and the Logos was God". Which I understand to mean the Logos was (and is and will be) an intrinsic aspect of God's existence.

Agreed that the Logos was and is an intrinsic aspect of Gods existence. However I believe the Logos (as the image) was created.

Col. 1:15-19

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

God created, or formed an image in which he would dwell.

Rev. 3:14

14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

The Logos was in the beginning with God as his image. That is what I believe John is stating in John 1:1. Before the beginning (creation) there was no need for him to have an image.

No one else existed.

I also believe that early Christian speculation concerning the origin of the Logos is what lead to Tertullian's ideas concerning the creation, making, forming, or "emanation" of the Logos, making it a distinct person from the Father. This in turn led to more speculation which resulted in the trinitarian view and the "eternal generation/begetting of the Logos".

True. Did you read the study I posted in the first post of the thread? That is what Mark August, the author is trying to point out.

God IMO inspired John to write:

John 1:1

In the beginning was the logos and the logos was with God and God was the logos.

This was done to clear up the confusion of mens ideas that were circulating around Israel and the Roman empire.

God was referring us back to the OT when he existed as the angel of the Lord, his image. He did not want us to believe his Logos was simply a thought in Gods mind. Neither an "eternal son". Neither a begotten son that was another God person.

John taught the logos was GOD.

The Greek literally says "God was the logos".

It was PERSONAL.

John 1:3

All things were made by him and without him was anything made that was made.

Mark August

We also do not accept the 3rd Century Origenian theory of an "eternally generated Son", though we do acknowledge that Logos was resident in the mind of YHWH as Wisdom before the beginning in eternity.