[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Costeon

I think I do now understand what you mean by perfection. Thank you for clarifying. One is perfect when one is perfectly obedient, that is, sinless; one is imperfect when one imperfectly obeys. Salvation is only for those who are perfect. When on sins, one loses one's perfection, but regains it upon repenting; therefore, if one should die or be alive when the Lord returns and be in the state of imperfection, he will be sent to hell.

It won't really help for me to go line by line and show you how I disagree with your interpretation of the Scripture. I won't change your mind, and you won't change mind. So, my goal now is just to urge you to remove all inconsistencies from your position.

You say: "Its not that one instantly loses their salvation. What he does lose is perfection toward God." You have repeatedly asserted that one must be perfect to be saved. So, you cannot then say that there are any times of when someone is imperfect but still saved. You are either perfect and saved or imperfect and lost. Those are the only alternatives for your view.

I will continue to disagree with your position, but I will respect your consistency if you just say, "Yes, a person is lost the moment he sins and is imperfect and remains lost till he repents and is perfect again, because only the perfect will enter the kingdom of God."

You added: "If we have sin in our life we are not perfect toward him. God gives us time to repent. If the sin remains in our life God will withdraw his favor from the person. We are not given to know how long one can keep sin in their life before God chastens them. Neither how long before he no longer considers them his."

This idea could work with my view but not yours.

So here are the implications of your view:

- Jesus doesn't love you when you sin and are imperfect. (I'm not sure what the alternative is. Does he hate you? Is he indifferent toward you?) He loves you again when you repent. His love is, therefore, entirely dependent on your behavior. He's worse than a human father who doesn't cease loving his children even though they may do something displeasing to him.

- You have a works-based salvation. As I mentioned in a previous post: "If our salvation is dependent on my moment by moment obedience--my perfection--then I am in effect saving myself. If I lose my justified status the instant I have failed in any way, then my justification is based on me not on Christ's grace."

These are, in my opinion, unbiblical implications and so your interpretation of passages that lead to them must be incorrect.

Costeon,

Have you considered the scriptures I presented? You cant always just box everything in a little package and consider it all right. All scripture is true. The only thing I'm doing is presenting the half of the whole counsel of God you rarely hear.