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Old 02-12-2019, 12:38 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zion aka TEXAS
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Re: A Wonder in Heaven

If true, then John witnesses the manchild caught up to God and to his throne. The body of Christ has been pulled out of the earthly calamities about to be unleashed in the seven vials, and once delivered in heaven, rescued from the jaws of the dragon.


There is no rapture whereby the church is physically removed from the earth to "escape calamities". The reason you see a mystery and conundrum concerning "who is the seed of the woman that seems left behind?" is the result of the error of thinking there is a rapture involved.

Consider verses 7-12. A war in heaven between two armies or "hosts". One side prevails and defeats (overcomes) the other. The victorious overcomers are identified in verse 7 as angels, but in verse 11 the overcomes are said to achieve their victory through the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony (martyria, martyrdom), which cannot be said of literal angels.

So this war in the heavenlies is not angelic beings fighting in the fifth dimension or outer space, but spiritual conflict in the spiritual realm, as spoken of in Matthew 11:12. It is between the adversary and his messengers (aggelos, angels), and between Michael ("He Who Is Like El/God", the Captain of the Lord's Host/Army, the "archangel" or Head/Chief/Ruler of Angels, the "Great Prince" or ruler - Daniel 12:1, the Angel of Jehovah or Angel of the Presence, the LOGOS, who incarnated as Christ) and His messengers (apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds/teachers - see 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, Galatians 4:14, and the fact that "evangelist" is a variation of "angel" or "messenger").

The war being described in Rev 12 is the war described in 2 Corinthians 10:3-5, and is a spiritual war "in the heavenlies" - where we are ALREADY SEATED according to Ephesians 2:6 - between truth and error, Christ and the devil, the church and the world, correct doctrine and false doctrine, messengers of God and messengers of satan, teachers of righteousness and teachers of ungodliness.

So this chapter is not about being removed from the earth.

The "remnant of her seed which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus" is the remnant of Israel, the church, those who obey God's commandments and who bear witness to Jesus as the crucified, buried, resurrected, and ascended Christ. The key distinction made in the passage is these are not just any and every one who claims to be Christian, but those who obey God's commandments as part of their Christian witness (see Matthew 7:21-23). Antinomians are not part of the remnant, but are sadly those washed away by the devil's floodwaters, because they are of the earth and not of heaven. Their house was built on sand, the floods came, and away they were carried...
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Last edited by Esaias; 02-12-2019 at 12:42 PM.
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