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Old 07-29-2019, 10:18 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Re: Tongues- A sign or THE sign Of Spirit Infillin

Interesting discussion going on here.

Regarding this point:

Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
(I realize this is not addressed to me...)

Good point. When Paul asked “Do all Speak with tongues” the Biblical inference is “No”. Yet the classical Pentecostal response is “Yes”.

Of course they would say “Yes” to the 1.0 Version (Evidence)
And “Yes” to the 2.0 Version (Speaking in tongues in prayer)
But “No” to the 3.0 Version (Gift of Tongues)

Yet Paul was not addressing only particular tongues, but the nature of tongues in general, and the perception that unbelievers may have if spoken in public assembly.
Let's see there:

Notice that the goal of Paul is about edification:

[1Co 14 NKJV] 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies [is] greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Then, here, the spiritual gifts was again the topic, which goes in line with the church edification topic:

12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual [gifts], [let it be] for the edification of the church [that] you seek to excel.

See how he keeps talking about when directing words to the church:

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. ... 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. ...

So the whole topic is that, if you speak to the church in tongues, do it in a way that you got interpretation. Few verses later it says:

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, [let there be] two or at the most three, [each] in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

So the context is public speaking to the assembly (probably less than 60 people).

Pretty much trying to set order and let public demonstration to the church for edification.

I know many are trying to set some facts about speaking in tongues based on the first verses in that chapter of Cor, but you have to see them in the rhetorical context in which this whole passages was written to begin with and its goal. He starts by saying that tongues is for internal edification, but then he speaks about it like it if it is also for external edification. Paul can you make your mind? No, I think he is bringing the point that there are two purposes, internal edification and external. And the whole point of the passage is: if you are going to speak to the whole congregation in tongues, make sure it comes with interpretation, otherwise that came only for yourself. Notice that speaking in tongue would be the only gift that is also for self-edification.

I do agree that he doesn't make a technical distinction between the the tongues for internal edification and for the church edification: he doesn't use different words, he only says that tongues is for self-edification and for church edification if it comes with interpretation. I do think that trying to use a passage, especially the ones written by Paul, that was meant to address a different issue, to prove the point of baptism of the Spirit evidences is going to be a big challenge. If you are really seeking the truth, better to find it in the passages that are addressing the issue of the baptism of the Holy Spirit specifically. On top of that, Paul rhetoric is challenging at time, especially for 21th century, and things can be taken out of context and turn into misunderstanding quickly. Even Peter warned us about Paul writtings in 2Per 3:15-16 .

When the Spirit came in Acts 2:1 to the 120 people in the Upper room, they all spoke in tongues. It doesn't say that some did and some didn't, or that some spoke in tongues, and others prophesied in their native language, and others interpreted the tongues, and others none of the them because they got the word of wisdom. What happened in the Upper Room was definitely not a manifestation of the diversity of spiritual gifts Paul was talking about in 1Cor 12.

Last edited by coksiw; 07-29-2019 at 11:31 AM.
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