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Originally Posted by Costeon
For those who hold to the now traditional view that no one is saved until they have been baptized in Jesus' name and baptized with the Spirit with the sign of tongues, it would be better for them to say that no saving work at all occurs until someone has experienced both elements than to assert that different aspects of salvation occur at different points in a process.
If people would teach, for example, that baptism does not bring the remission of sins until someone has also been baptized in the Spirit, or someone has not been born of the Spirit until he has also been born of the water, this would avoid the implications that I have mentioned several times in this thread, that someone could have all their sins remitted and therefore be justified, but at that moment still be lost because he has not received the Spirit with the sign of tongues, or that someone could receive the fullness of the life-giving and transforming Spirit, but still be lost if he has not been baptized in water and therefore still has his record of sins against him.
It’s not surprising that no other groups have ever argued for a process of salvation the way apparently almost all Oneness Pentecostals do now since the teaching of a process of salvation leads to absurd implications--wildly unreasonable or illogical. Everyone else in the history of the church, as far as I know, has asserted that salvation occurs at a particular point. For Catholics, Orthodox, and Church of Christ, for example, this point is baptism. Everything experienced in salvation occurs at that point. For other Protestants this point is faith.
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Martin Luther rejected the book of James. He didn't like it: "St. John' Gospel and his first Epistle, St. Paul's Epistles, especially those to the Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, and St. Peter's Epistle - these are the books which show to thee Christ . . . Therefore, St. James' Epistle is a perfect straw-epistle compared with them . . ." (Basic Theology, article "The Canon")
You need to look at all the verses that talk about a topic before drawing a conclusion, otherwise you end up with the mental faith alone doctrine like Protestant do.
There are plenty of evidences in the scripture that point to you what the doctrine is. More than that may be just us overthinking it or not looking at the full picture. I feel like if we get caught up in how many milliseconds of being lost while you obey the gospel is like trying to micromanage God in how he is dealing with the specific soul and the time he gives us to live and show our obedience to the faith.
When you repented and believed He approached to you and gave you an experience. Does that mean that you are saved if you die right there? Well, He is also giving you plenty of time to show your obedience to the faith. The experience can be seen as a testimony to your spirit that you are on the right track. God loves you and he is going to deal with you the moment you believe, and humble and repent.
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Why not let the Scripture speak for itself. Jesus said we must be born again of water and the Spirit.
In Acts you find the command given to individuals to be baptized after they received the Spirit. Paul was told to go be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
As far as Oneness Pentecostals not believing like every one else, we are well aware of that, and thats quite alright.
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^ That.