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Old 04-04-2022, 09:17 AM
coksiw coksiw is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2019
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Re: "With the Holy Ghost and with fire"

These are my thoughts answering to myself. Would love to hear yours.

"fire" in the context refers to judgment. So John has a crowd of people, some are truly repenting but other like the Pharisees are there inspecting this new preacher called John. John is preaching to the people of Israel and to both kinds of audiences. So John is calling for an imminent moment of judgment, and the "mightier" one will come and baptize some with the Holy Spirit, and others with fire of judgment: "Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

The Holy Spirit is usually associated with water pouring down from heaven, or with oil, that also feeds the flame of the candlestick in the Temple. The day of Pentecost in Acts 2 witnessed flames, but that was a sign to indicate that the oil of the Spirit move to the church, and therefore, church is the new temple where God inhabits instead of the actual Temple in Jerusalem.


To support this point even more, when Peter remembered John's words, he didn't refer to the "fire baptism":
[Act 11:16 KJV] 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

I don't recall anywhere in the book of Acts, or even the Epistles where the Holy Spirit coming upon a believer is referred to as "fire baptism" or "fire coming down from Heaven".

When Mark referred to John's words without detailing the "judgment" part, he excluded the "with fire" part:

[Mar 1:3-8 KJV] 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. 6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey; 7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. 8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
When John did the same, he also excluded the "with fire" part:

[Jhn 1:33 KJV] 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

So I think this is an example how a misinterpretation changed the metaphors in our churches.

Last edited by coksiw; 04-04-2022 at 09:21 AM.
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