Random Questions Thread

[shag]

The Transfiguration

I’m sure this has been discussed in the past…

Luke 9:28 Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white. 30 And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure,[b] which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, but when they became fully awake they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. 33 And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said. 34 As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One;[c] listen to him!” 36 And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen.



Specifically:

30 And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure,[b] which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem



How were Moses and Elijah standing there talking to Jesus about His death, if they were dead, and it was pre resurrection?

[Amanah]

The Scriptural Framework

Jesus as the First Fruits of Resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:20 states, "But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep." This verse establishes Jesus as the pioneer of resurrection, He is the first to experience this transformation.

Jesus' Exclusive Immortality:
1 Timothy 6:16 affirms, "who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see." This verse underscores Jesus' unique possession of immortality, distinguishing Him from all other beings.

The Transfiguration in Light of Scripture

Given these scriptural truths, the Transfiguration account presents a challenge. If Moses and Elijah appeared alongside Jesus, it would imply that they had already experienced resurrection or immortality, contradicting the scriptural framework.

To resolve this tension, interpreting the Transfiguration as a vision is a reasonable and consistent conclusion. This view maintains scriptural integrity upholding the uniqueness of Jesus' resurrection and immortality.

[shag]

On the other side of the coin…

It would be good and helpful, if the scriptures said something about it being just a vision.
Rather, it says Jesus (did in fact) talk with Moses and Elijah.
I don’t feel like the scriptures would be “tricky”, saying the 2 (obviously representative of law and prophet) spoke with Jesus about His death, when they actually did not speak with him at all.
That would seem somewhat misleading.

But do I have a better explanation? Nope, I sure don’t

Some would likely pull out the, “ to be absent from the body is to be present with God”….
The Bible does not speak of Elijah having fallen asleep/dying, that I’m aware of.


How exactly did the men of Nineveh rise up in their generation to condemn it?
Luke 11:32

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by shag

On the other side of the coin…

It would be good and helpful, if the scriptures said something about it being just a vision.
Rather, it says Jesus (did in fact) talk with Moses and Elijah.
I don’t feel like the scriptures would be “tricky”, saying the 2 (obviously representative of law and prophet) spoke with Jesus about His death, when they actually did not speak with him at all.
That would seem somewhat misleading.

But do I have a better explanation? Nope, I sure don’t

Some would likely pull out the, “ to be absent from the body is to be present with God”….
The Bible does not speak of Elijah having fallen asleep/dying, that I’m aware of.

The thing is that if we believe the Bible is inspired by the same God, then we should be able to harmonize it. Therefore, in order to establish a truth, you must look into the entire Bible about the topic and be able to harmonize it by the previous premise. I believe Amanah is correct to think that was a vision.

How exactly did the men of Nineveh rise up in their generation to condemn it?
Luke 11:32

The only place where such event could happen is described in the following verse, where everyone will be judged according to their works:

[Revelation 20:12-13 KJV] 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

There is a coming resurrection of everyone, not just the saints.


[Daniel 12:2 KJV] 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

[John 5:28-29 KJV] 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

[shag]

Originally Posted by Amanah

The Scriptural Framework

Jesus as the First Fruits of Resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:20 states, "But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep." This verse establishes Jesus as the pioneer of resurrection, He is the first to experience this transformation.

Jesus' Exclusive Immortality:
1 Timothy 6:16 affirms, "who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see." This verse underscores Jesus' unique possession of immortality, distinguishing Him from all other beings.

The Transfiguration in Light of Scripture

Given these scriptural truths, the Transfiguration account presents a challenge. If Moses and Elijah appeared alongside Jesus, it would imply that they had already experienced resurrection or immortality, contradicting the scriptural framework.

To resolve this tension, interpreting the Transfiguration as a vision is a reasonable and consistent conclusion. This view maintains scriptural integrity upholding the uniqueness of Jesus' resurrection and immortality.

I believe Matt’s rendition pretty much seals the deal, in agreement w you.

“The vision”
https://biblehub.com/matthew/17-9.htm

[shag]

Originally Posted by coksiw

The thing is that if we believe the Bible is inspired by the same God, then we should be able to harmonize it. Therefore, in order to establish a truth, you must look into the entire Bible about the topic and be able to harmonize it by the previous premise. I believe Amanah is correct to think that was a vision.



The only place where such event could happen is described in the following verse, where everyone will be judged according to their works:

[Revelation 20:12-13 KJV] 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

There is a coming resurrection of everyone, not just the saints.


[Daniel 12:2 KJV] 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

[John 5:28-29 KJV] 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shag

The Transfiguration

I’m sure this has been discussed in the past…

Luke 9:28 Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white. 30 And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure,[b] which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, but when they became fully awake they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. 33 And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said. 34 As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One;[c] listen to him!” 36 And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen.



Specifically:

30 And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure,[b] which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem



How were Moses and Elijah standing there talking to Jesus about His death, if they were dead, and it was pre resurrection?

Matthew 17:1-9 KJV
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, [2] And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. [3] And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. [4] Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. [5] While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. [6] And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. [7] And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. [8] And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. [9] And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

It was a vision, of the glory of the resurrection, with Moses (the law) and Elijah (the prophets) being witnesses to Jesus and His Messianic mission and glorification.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Matthew 17:1-9 KJV
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, [2] And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. [3] And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. [4] Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. [5] While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. [6] And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. [7] And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. [8] And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. [9] And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

It was a vision, of the glory of the resurrection, with Moses (the law) and Elijah (the prophets) being witnesses to Jesus and His Messianic mission and glorification.

Vision: https://biblehub.com/greek/3705.htm

[Amanah]

Some who are Torah Observant interpret Ezekiel 43 as saying that the Levitical Priesthood and animal sacrifice will be reinstituted in the Millennial kingdom.

But this seems to be impossible because Hebrews says the Priesthood has been changed to the order of Melchesidek.

So, what is Ezekiel 43 actually saying?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Some who are Torah Observant interpret Ezekiel 43 as saying that the Levitical Priesthood and animal sacrifice will be reinstituted in the Millennial kingdom.

But this seems to be impossible because Hebrews says the Priesthood has been changed to the order of Melchesidek.

So, what is Ezekiel 43 actually saying?

Ezekiel 43:1-11 KJV
Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east: [2] And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. [3] And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face. [4] And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. [5] So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house. [6] And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me. [7] And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places. [8] In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger. [9] Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever. [10] Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern. [11] And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

Then follows the vision of the metes and bounds and the ordinances for sacrifices by the Zadokite (Levitical) priesthood. From the introduction given by God to Ezekiel as to the purpose of the vision, it seems to me that God is saying the nation is commanded to repent, and to sanctify God in their midst, and that if this should be done then proper worship would be restored.

Ezekiel 43:11 KJV
And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

So the prophet is attempting to re-establish proper worship, by virtue of a divine prophetical calling to be a divinely appointed reformer. It do not see that this chapter is a prophecy of "what will be happening in the Millennium" or even that it is a prophecy of what would be happening at any time, rather, it is instruction for the nation in the matter of re-establishing proper worship.