Holy Ghost baptism is blood cleansing sin away??

[Truthseeker]

Read this article and give me your thoughts. Never heard anyone teach this before.

http://www.isaiah58.com/tracts/bloodofchrist.html

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Read this article and give me your thoughts. Never heard anyone teach this before.

http://www.isaiah58.com/tracts/bloodofchrist.html

very interesting!!! Never heard it that way before.

[BrotherEastman]

It makes since for the 3 steppers.

[Michael The Disciple]

Yes it is one of the steps.

[obriencp]

I agree that it is the spirit that cleanses/washes/remits our sins. If a 3 stepper agrees with this article and the scriptures therein, then they can no longer say that water baptism is necessary to remit your sins. I'm not saying to do away with water baptism, but i'm saying understand what it is.

[Truthseeker]

So one that has repented and water baptized is still in sin till receiving of the Holy Ghost?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by obriencp

I agree that it is the spirit that cleanses/washes/remits our sins. If a 3 stepper agrees with this article and the scriptures therein, then they can no longer say that water baptism is necessary to remit your sins. I'm not saying to do away with water baptism, but i'm saying understand what it is.

Yes and no. IMO the wording of Acts 2:38 concerning baptism being "in order that your sins may be forgiven" is misunderstood by both Evangelical and Jesus Name Apostolics. Baptism is a surrendering to the Lordship of the only one who has the authority to forgive sins, Jesus Christ. Hence in baptism we surrender to that authority ("in his name") "in order that" our sins may be dealt with in Holy Ghost baptism. The truth of this article does NOT negate water baptism being a step towards the forgiveness and cleansing from sin. We are still baptized in order that our sins may be forgiven (forward looking), not to wash away our sins.

What I reject wholeheartedly is the idea that it is the oral invocation of the name of Jesus over someone that somehow casts out their sins like a demon being cast out at the name of Jesus. That is sasordotalism at it is worst. I think it is also foolish to say that someone baptized in the titles who is Spirit filled is still in their sins because they were baptized wrong. Anyone who says that simply does not understand what God does at Holy Ghost baptism. Romans 8:2 declares that is "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that makes us free from the law of sin and death".

This stand of mine will still be rejected by one stepper Evangelicals who think one is saved by repeating a prayer to ask Jesus into their heart, something never taught by the Apostles.

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Yes and no. IMO the wording of Acts 2:38 concerning baptism being "in order that your sins may be forgiven" is misunderstood by both Evangelical and Jesus Name Apostolics. Baptism is a surrendering to the Lordship of the only one who has the authority to forgive sins, Jesus Christ. Hence in baptism we surrender to that authority ("in his name") "in order that" our sins may be dealt with in Holy Ghost baptism. The truth of this article does NOT negate water baptism being a step towards the forgiveness and cleansing from sin. We are still baptized in order that our sins may be forgiven (forward looking), not to wash away our sins.

What I reject wholeheartedly is the idea that it is the oral invocation of the name of Jesus over someone that somehow casts out their sins like a demon being cast out at the name of Jesus. That is sasordotalism at it is worst. I think it is also foolish to say that someone baptized in the titles who is Spirit filled is still in their sins because they were baptized wrong. Anyone who says that simply does not understand what God does at Holy Ghost baptism. Romans 8:2 declares that is "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that makes us free from the law of sin and death".

This stand of mine will still be rejected by one stepper Evangelicals who think one is saved by repeating a prayer to ask Jesus into their heart, something never taught by the Apostles.

Very good points... I totally agree with your comment about water baptism being a point of surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. This is why I say a truly repentant believer will want to be baptized.

I don't agree that all will be saved by repeating a prayer offered by a minister during altar call, but the truly repentant believer will be and will also seek more truth, learn to pray for themselves, and be water baptized. While there are scriptures associating baptism with washing, there are also scriptures associating the Holy Spirit with washing. Taking the whole of scripture, I say the Spirit is the cleansing agent and the regenerating agent, not water baptism. If one agrees with this and put in combination with all the other scriptures, water baptism isn't "necessary" for salvation, but is a commandment of believers (the truly saved ones will submit to water baptism).

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

So one that has repented and water baptized is still in sin till receiving of the Holy Ghost?

The argument to this...

The truly repentant believer has already been given the spirit of life and has been water baptized. Just because they haven't manifested an external sign of tongues, doesn't mean they aren't saved. Recieving the Holy Ghost does not always = tongues. Not trying to call you out personally, but many have said this same exact thing. With this paradigm in mind we might as well say, "So one that has repented and been water baptized is still in sin till they speak in tongues?" Most OPs will say yes... no tongues = not saved.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by obriencp

The argument to this...

The truly repentant believer has already been given the spirit of life and has been water baptized. Just because they haven't manifested an external sign of tongues, doesn't mean they aren't saved. Recieving the Holy Ghost does not always = tongues. Not trying to call you out personally, but many have said this same exact thing. With this paradigm in mind we might as well say, "So one that has repented and been water baptized is still in sin till they speak in tongues?" Most OPs will say yes... no tongues = not saved.

The problem is in Acts nobody is recorded receiving the Spirit immediately upon belief other than Cornelius. This leads to the idea held by some that there is a difference between being born of The spirit and being baptized in the Spirit. However, in Acts it speaks of people receiving "the Spirit", not different "workings of the Spirit". This is why I cannot hold to the view that people are automatically born of the Spirit upon believing the gospel.