Question About Predestination

BrotherEastman · #1 03-25-2016, 03:43 PM

Okay, I know there are some smart people out there so I have to ask the question.....seriously, because I don't know.

I do know this however, God is omnipresent, God is omnipotent, and God is omniscient. Because I know these things I am confused about "predestination".

Does God "know" who is going to go to heaven and who is going to go to hell? If God already "knows", then what difference does it make if we serve Him or not? Is it because we don't "know"?

Somebody give me a good thought out answer and not just some "pat" answer.

Esaias · #2 03-25-2016, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Okay, I know there are some smart people out there so I have to ask the question.....seriously, because I don't know.

I do know this however, God is omnipresent, God is omnipotent, and God is omniscient. Because I know these things I am confused about "predestination".

Does God "know" who is going to go to heaven and who is going to go to hell? If God already "knows", then what difference does it make if we serve Him or not? Is it because we don't "know"?

Somebody give me a good thought out answer and not just some "pat" answer.

1. God knows everybody whoever lived, or who is alive.

2. Romans 8:29 says he predestinated a certain class of people.

3. That predestination is to being conformed to the image of His Son.

4. The class said to be predestinated is those whom God foreknew.

5. Romans 11:2 identifies the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israelites) as the ones whom he foreknew.

Therefore, predestination has to do with Israelites being conformed to the image of Christ.

Ephesians 1:11 places our inheritance in Christ along with our predestination. By being in Christ, we have an inheritance. Predestination is, like justification, sanctification, and glorification, only found in Christ. One enters into the destiny predetermined by God for His people by being in Christ.

Esaias · #3 03-25-2016, 05:27 PM

The problem is the classical, Greek pagan view of God (Stoicism, Platonism, etc) creates fatalistic determinism. By viewing God as a static being "outside of time" who is omniscient, it follows that God knows with absolute certainty all future events as equally and as certainly as he knows all past events. God is never wrong. Therefore, all future events WILL turn out exactly as God has always known them to be.

Therefore, all future events are certain to occur, and have ALWAYS been so. And therefore, there is no choice whatsoever inn existence, except God's choice(s). And therefore, God has pre determined who will be saved, and who will be damned, individually, before time ever began. And therefore, those chosen to damnation CANNOT BUT BE DAMNED, and those chosen to salvation CANNOT BUT BE SAVED.

All of which is unbiblical, pagan, and makes God out to be a liar.

Esaias · #4 03-25-2016, 05:34 PM

The truth is the future is not yet (that's why it's called the future). The only certainties in the future are the certainty of possible courses of action. God knows everything exactly AS IT TRULY IS. God therefore knows our future choices as they truly are: POSSIBILITIES and probabilities.

The Bible says nothing about God being "outside time". Time is transition, from one state to another. If God is outside time then God does not DO anything, he has no THOUGHTS, he simply IS.

But God is not like that. The Bible clearly shows God thinks, plans, counsels, considers, and even changes his mind! Therefore, time always existed as a function of God's own state of mind.

The Bible goes back to " in the beginning", not "before the beginning" - which is a self contradictory concept anyway.

We need to divest ourselves of paganised thinking and views of God, and get back to the Bible. Rather than try to interpret the Bible through the lens of classical metaphysics, whether pagan or catholic/protestant, we need to let the Word tell us where to start and what to think about the nature of God and reality.

Evang.Benincasa · #5 03-25-2016, 06:39 PM

Predestination is not true

Godsdrummer · #6 03-26-2016, 08:46 AM

I think we read these passages from the wrong point of view. God does not predestine individuals, but mankind as a whole. He predestined all mankind to be saved. But only those that believe on him will be.

God is not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

thephnxman · #7 03-26-2016, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Okay, I know there are some smart people out there so I have to ask the question.....seriously, because I don't know.
I do know this however, God is omnipresent, God is omnipotent, and God is omniscient. Because I know these things I am confused about "predestination".
Does God "know" who is going to go to heaven and who is going to go to hell? If God already "knows", then what difference does it make if we serve Him or not? Is it because we don't "know"?
Somebody give me a good thought out answer and not just some "pat" answer.

There is only ONE predestinated: the Lord, Christ Jesus.

No [(man] has been predestined to be lost or saved, as it pertains to
salvation. What WAS predestined is man's salvation: and that only by
the faith of Jesus Christ.

Yes, God KNEW man would sin. We can see this as He spoke to Adam
and Eve: "...on the day that you eat thereof, dying you shall die."
Did you see? God didn't say that if Adam would eat of the fruit of the
knowledge of good and evil; in effect, He said when...! And not only
that, but the tree was placed in the garden BEFORE Adam and Eve were
created and formed. But here's a couple of scriptures:

According as he hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the
world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus
Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Now those who will be saved, will be saved by choosing to be saved,
even as He has given us the free will to choose life, instead of death.

"Choose therefore life, that you and your seed may live."

Evang.Benincasa · #8 03-26-2016, 12:41 PM

Calvinistic Predestination OSAS is a demonic doctrine from the lowest wrung of the pit.

thephnxman · #9 03-26-2016, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Calvinistic Predestination OSAS is a demonic doctrine from the lowest wrung of the pit.

I don't know Calvin's doctrine

I can't speak for Calvin: perhaps he misunderstood what is
predestination in Jesus Christ. However, from the beginning
no one is saved aside from being conformed to His image.

Are you saying ALL predestination is OSAS or Calvinistic?

Evang.Benincasa · #10 03-26-2016, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I don't know Calvin's doctrine

I can't speak for Calvin: perhaps he misunderstood what is
predestination in Jesus Christ. However, from the beginning
no one is saved aside from being conformed to His image.

Are you saying ALL predestination is OSAS or Calvinistic?

Predestination in Christian circles is OSAS, and teaches that some are predestined to heaven while others are predestined to hell. Just the idea of one being predestined to either destination assures you that you couldn't lose your salvation or your damnation.