The Hope of Israel

mfblume · #1 08-18-2009, 10:49 AM

Paul was chained and imprisoned due to preaching what he called, "the hope of Israel."

Acts 28:20 KJV For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

All of his preaching that got him jailed and persecuted was summed up by himself as the message of the hope of Israel. Now, if dispensationalists were correct in saying Israel has the hope of a restored Davidic kingdom will occur after the rapture, and Paul preached that message, there would be nothing for the Jews to persecute! They would have hailed Paul as a great man of God! They would have figured Paul preached their heart's desire! However, they persecuted Paul so much because what Paul actually preached was not what modern-day dispensationalists nor the Jews of his day believed.

Paul did not preach "A" hope of Israel, as though there is the church for the Jew today and also another hope of a kingdom after the church age, but "THE" hope of Israel. The only one. In Romans 10, Paul said the only message for Israel is the word of faith that he preached. And he actually interpreted Deut 30's word of command that Israel must obey to come back to God as that word of faith in Jesus.

mfblume · #2 08-18-2009, 11:22 AM

Some might say that Paul preached JESUS as Israel's only hope THEN, in the church age, but that does not mean he did not believe that after the church age the rest of Israel would be saved in a millennium. Well, such a person must show us, then, where Paul preached a HOPE apart from the church for a future time. It's not there.

Falla39 · #3 08-18-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Some might say that Paul preached JESUS as Israel's only hope THEN, in the church age, but that does not mean he did not believe that after the church age the rest of Israel would be saved in a millennium. Well, such a person must show us, then, where Paul preached a HOPE apart from the church for a future time. It's not there.

AMEN, BRO. BLUME!!

Jesus Christ the same, yesterday and today and forever! The same HOPE
continues to be our HOPE. Christ in us, the HOPE of GLORY!!!
If Christ is in us, it will be made manifest by the fruit of The Spirit, or from
comes forth from our bodies. If we open our mouths and cursing comes forth,
if hatred, and bitterness, envy and strife, or other works of the flesh come
forth, we are none of HIS!

We can insist that we are filled with the Holy Ghost until we are blue in the
face, But the truth will be made manifest from what flows from our innermost
being. If I wasn't sure who was inside me, I'd be examining myself to see if I
was in the faith. The faith once delivered to the saints.

Heb.6:19:
19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and
which entereth into that within the veil;

Blessings,

Falla39

ApostolicTexas · #4 09-18-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Paul was chained and imprisoned due to preaching what he called, "the hope of Israel."

Acts 28:20 KJV For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

All of his preaching that got him jailed and persecuted was summed up by himself as the message of the hope of Israel. Now, if dispensationalists were correct in saying Israel has the hope of a restored Davidic kingdom will occur after the rapture, and Paul preached that message, there would be nothing for the Jews to persecute! They would have hailed Paul as a great man of God! They would have figured Paul preached their heart's desire! However, they persecuted Paul so much because what Paul actually preached was not what modern-day dispensationalists nor the Jews of his day believed.

Paul did not preach "A" hope of Israel, as though there is the church for the Jew today and also another hope of a kingdom after the church age, but "THE" hope of Israel. The only one. In Romans 10, Paul said the only message for Israel is the word of faith that he preached. And he actually interpreted Deut 30's word of command that Israel must obey to come back to God as that word of faith in Jesus.

Paul was not on trial because He taught a rapture!..but what He did teach was what the Law and the Prophets said would come...the resurrection...

Acts 24:14
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Now if Pauls' teaching can be traced back to them..we need to understand what exactly did they teach..I think many would be shocked to find out they never taught a rapture or physical bodies flying out of the ground but what they did teach was the resurrection or the reuniting of the 2 houses of Israel!

Jesus said He came not but for who?...the lost sheep of the House of Israel..He did not come for the Gentile even though they later would be included.Salvation was a promise to Old Covenant Israel,if Jesus has not already come this means Israel did not receive their promise which in turn means we today do not have ours.Because salvation was first promised to the Jews..If you have the Holy Ghost today,guess what..you have proof..

mfblume · #5 09-19-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

Paul was not on trial because He taught a rapture!..but what He did teach was what the Law and the Prophets said would come...the resurrection...

Acts 24:14
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Now if Pauls' teaching can be traced back to them..we need to understand what exactly did they teach..I think many would be shocked to find out they never taught a rapture or physical bodies flying out of the ground but what they did teach was the resurrection or the reuniting of the 2 houses of Israel!

Jesus said He came not but for who?...the lost sheep of the House of Israel..He did not come for the Gentile even though they later would be included.Salvation was a promise to Old Covenant Israel,if Jesus has not already come this means Israel did not receive their promise which in turn means we today do not have ours.Because salvation was first promised to the Jews..If you have the Holy Ghost today,guess what..you have proof..

This is not about rapture or no rapture. It is about the truth that the church is for Israel, for whcih Paul was persecuted. But the bible does teach physical bodies coming out of graves.

ApostolicTexas · #6 09-26-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

This is not about rapture or no rapture. It is about the truth that the church is for Israel, for whcih Paul was persecuted. But the bible does teach physical bodies coming out of graves.

I would have to disagree with you Bro Blume..you evidently mis understand what was lost in the garden..Adam was created OUTSIDE the Garden..He did not have life to begin with,He was made to die..He had a limited warranty..

Jesus came to redeem the soul...not the body..

ApostolicTexas · #7 09-26-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

This is not about rapture or no rapture. It is about the truth that the church is for Israel, for whcih Paul was persecuted. But the bible does teach physical bodies coming out of graves.

Paul was persecuted because He taught about THE resurrection which He said was ABOUT to come..He also said the things He believed and taught are found in the law and in the prophets.All we have to do is research what the law and the prophets taught and see if they ever predicted a rapture or physical bodies coming out of the ground

Sam · #8 09-26-2009, 11:06 PM

In Acts 17 at Thessalonica it is recorded that Paul (or Rav Sha'ul) went to the synagogue on the sabbath and reasoned with them out of the Scriptures. It goes on to say that his message was twofold:
1.The Christ must suffer and rise from the dead
2. This Jesus whom I preach is the Christ

This agrees with what he called the Gospel or Good news in 1 Corinthians 15:
The Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures
He was buried
He rose again the third day according to the scriptures

So, it seems he preached that the Scriptures depicted a suffering Messiah.
Then after he established that, he went on to show how that Jesus/Yeshua is indeed that suffering Messiah set forth in the scriptures.

mfblume · #9 09-27-2009, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

Paul was persecuted because He taught about THE resurrection which He said was ABOUT to come..He also said the things He believed and taught are found in the law and in the prophets.All we have to do is research what the law and the prophets taught and see if they ever predicted a rapture or physical bodies coming out of the ground

No, Paul said he believed the law and prophets, not that he preached nothing but what law and prophets said. Big difference. So it has nothing to do with whether or not law and prophets taught bodily resurrection, which I see they did, anyway.

mfblume · #10 09-27-2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

I would have to disagree with you Bro Blume..you evidently mis understand what was lost in the garden..Adam was created OUTSIDE the Garden..He did not have life to begin with,He was made to die..He had a limited warranty..

Jesus came to redeem the soul...not the body..

Romans 8:23 KJV And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Jesus came to redeem spirit, soul and body. And Adam was never told he'd return to the grave except in a derogatory concept of dust to dust after he sinned. This derogatory note of being dust to return to dust in itself indicates it was not God's will, otherwise it would not have been in a negative tone.