Prayer And The Will Of Man

[Ron]

As we all know there is a "free will" of man.
There is also the "Sovereignty of God"
There is also the promise to a "child of God" that he/she can "move mountains"
through prayer.

The question I would like to ask is this by using this illustration.

Person A feels that person(s), groups, companies, etc;
are ripping them off.

Person A prays and prays and prays--but no change.

They begin to feel as if nothing will happen.

Any answers?

This can apply to a number of people I know.

When, and under which circumstances, will God intervene and overrule ones
human will, to bring about a proper end that perhaps person A is praying for?

Theologians?

[Ron]

Nobody?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Ron

As we all know there is a "free will" of man.
There is also the "Sovereignty of God"
There is also the promise to a "child of God" that he/she can "move mountains"
through prayer.

The question I would like to ask is this by using this illustration.

Person A feels that person(s), groups, companies, etc;
are ripping them off.

Person A prays and prays and prays--but no change.

They begin to feel as if nothing will happen.

Any answers?

This can apply to a number of people I know.

When, and under which circumstances, will God intervene and overrule ones
human will, to bring about a proper end that perhaps person A is praying for?

Theologians?

I highly recommend Phillip Yancey's book: "Prayer" Does is it Really Make a Difference? He addresses these type of quandaries.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I highly recommend Phillip Yancey's book: "Prayer" Does is it Really Make a Difference? He addresses these type of quandaries.

I haven't read it but I have read some of his books.
I had a pastor that said, "Anything by Phillip Yancey is good."

[Sam]

I had a pastor who said, "prayer changes things, but it mostly changes the person who prays." He said that when he prays, if no answer comes, then he starts changing what he is asking for."

I have a note in my Bible next to 1 John 5:14-15 that says,
"Immature faith tries to namipulate God.
Mature faith seeks to move under the banner of God's will."

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Ron

As we all know there is a "free will" of man.
There is also the "Sovereignty of God"
There is also the promise to a "child of God" that he/she can "move mountains"
through prayer.

The question I would like to ask is this by using this illustration.

Person A feels that person(s), groups, companies, etc;
are ripping them off.

Person A prays and prays and prays--but no change.

They begin to feel as if nothing will happen.

Any answers?

This can apply to a number of people I know.

When, and under which circumstances, will God intervene and overrule ones
human will, to bring about a proper end that perhaps person A is praying for?

Theologians?

When and why does God do anything?

The person should first pray for understanding.

Then do something for themselves.

God uses people.

Even when we try and define it as God using circumstances.

Does he not just use people.

The question I ask is why this person and not that person.

It has to do with faith and then the action that what you step out to do will make a difference.

Why does one man come up with an idea and turn it into an empire.

Why do others come up with a bigger idea and have it stolen?

It has to do with the one doing something the other just telling someone about the idea.

Lets get passed the idea that God is going to be the physical resource.

God will be the director and the inspiration.

We will be the sweat and the hands.

I know I borowed the last line and messed it all up....

I think you get my point....

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sam

I haven't read it but I have read some of his books.
I had a pastor that said, "Anything by Phillip Yancey is good."

Yancey does some of the most in-depth research of any writer that I am familiar. This book looks at many of the questions we all have about answered and unanswered prayer. Yancey came from a very conservative evangelical background and has traveled a similar path to many of us.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sam

I had a pastor who said, "prayer changes things, but it mostly changes the person who prays." He said that when he prays, if no answer comes, then he starts changing what he is asking for."

I have a note in my Bible next to 1 John 5:14-15 that says,
"Immature faith tries to namipulate God.
Mature faith seeks to move under the banner of God's will."

Sam, I believe as we mature and come to know Jesus more and more personally, we much more easily ask according to His will. Which is another way of saying what you have already said, I realize.

Originally Posted by Ron

As we all know there is a "free will" of man.

No, we don't all know that. The fact that God punishes sin is evidence that man does not have the RIGHT (freedom) to choose to do whatever he wants.

There is also the "Sovereignty of God"

And it is absolute!

There is also the promise to a "child of God" that he/she can "move mountains"
through prayer.

Yes.

The question I would like to ask is this by using this illustration.

Person A feels that person(s), groups, companies, etc;
are ripping them off.

Emphasis on the word "feels." One's feelings may not be reflective of reality.

Person A prays and prays and prays--but no change.

Maybe there's no change because the person isn't listening to God for the answer. Prayer is a two-way conversation between the person and God, not a one-way monologue from the person to God.

They begin to feel as if nothing will happen.

Who does this person think he or she is to expect God to answer on a particular timetable? God will answer when He sees fit and it isn't necessarily going to be the answer the person wants - it will, however, be the answer that most glorifies God. Since prayer is a two-way conversation, the person needs to shut up and listen to what God is saying.

Any answers?

See above.
This can apply to a number of people I know.

When, and under which circumstances, will God intervene and overrule ones
human will, to bring about a proper end that perhaps person A is praying for?

Theologians?

God intervenes and overrule's one's will every time He brings a person to salvation. God will intervene and overrule human will whenever He pleases and always for His glory!