Old way of Holiness Standard do we need to keep?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by simplyme

Or could it be the REALLY old ways, lol

Lets be glad that whatever 'standards' we might have that people either do or don't comply with, none of us are thrown in jail or prosecuted over it (persecuted? maybe ) such as the Islamics do to their people over their religious practices, got this from an article on MSN?

The Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice runs the fearsome religious police, which is charged with enforcing Saudi Arabia's strict Islamic lifestyle. Its members patrol public places to make sure women are covered and not wearing make up, the sexes don't mingle, shops close five times a day for Muslim prayers and men go to the mosque and worship.

Although I kind of do like the attention to detail.
I like that there is priority given to worshipping their god., our 'standards' aren't even close to what is required ( and enforced ) there yet some people still gotta complain here. *sigh*
BUT, a "commission for the promotion of VIRTUE and the prevention of VICE"??? LOL! Good grief, IF that were to be had here, what an outrage and riot would ensue.

Be grateful American citizens! This is a blessed free country.

We have some churches that have an atmosphere about them where the members "spy" on each other, post pictures on the internet of members doing something that would revoke them from being on the platform, the choir, being in leadership, etc. Its kind of like the Gestapo or the KGB with the members policing each other, reporting violations to the pastor or other church leaders.

I understand standards. I believe they have their place in the life of the church. I have my own standards and standards as a pastor. But I am fearful that in too may cases we have turned them into idols. When it gets to this level, rather than manifesting the glory of God which draws men unto Him, it manifests something else and drives people away.

I don't think comparing us to the Muslims is making a strong case for how right standards are. I think it points more toward the fact that standards taken to nth degree makes us merely religious like the Muslims. We've got it good not because we don't have state sanctioned enforcement of religious disciplines, we are blessed because we are free in Christ.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Timmy

The oldest standard:

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Uh, not counting the fig leaves, of course. That was substandard. And before the fig leaves, well, I guess that was actually the first standard!

The first standard concerning modesty that is.

The FIRST standard is Jesus Christ, who is the express image of God! By Him all things were made. Without Him there was nothing made that was made. HE IS OUR STANDARD!

[robert]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

The problem, Bob, is that they preach it as a heaven or hell issue. This presents a problem when they move or if the preacher down the street teaches something different.

It's ok to teach preferences. It's not ok to teach them as Biblical or salvational.

Who decides what is a heaven or hell issue. A man of God teaches long hair on women/ short hair on men. Another man of God teaches it's up to your own personal conviction. Who decides it doesn't matter...Isn't dishonouring your head a consideration of right or wrong. If I thought even in the least that my actions would dishonour my head which is Christ Jesus I would not even question the correctness or inconvenience of it...I would just do it. God told Moses to take off his shoe for he was on Holy ground...Was that a heaven or hell issue. We could argue, God wouldn't have sent Moses to hell if he disregarded the respect asked of him by God. Some say if God spoke to me from a burning bush, I'd do it. But if God speaks from his Word or through the preaching of a man of God they won't do it. Who decides what is honouring God or does it matter. We should just do these things and find out when we get to heven if it was actually necessary. I hear every kind of excuse that can be thought of to get out of doing something that is not even harmful to us in the first place. No wonder God calls us his children. We act like children.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by robert

A Pastor should have the right to instruct what is modest and what is not according to his experience in his walk with God and his prayer life with God. Why do children of God feel they have the authority to define what is modest and what is not, but the man of God does not have any authority in the matter at all. Let the leaders lead and let the children of God try following.

I agree. The problem is when Pastor X tries to determine what Pastor Y and Pastor Z are doing and not allowing those pastors to instruct what the believe to be modest and what is not according to his prayer life and walk with God. Why do preachers feel they have the authority to define what is modest and what is not for other pastors and their congregations? Let the pastors pastor their own congregations and leave the others alone.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by robert

Who decides what is a heaven or hell issue. A man of God teaches long hair on women/ short hair on men. Another man of God teaches it's up to your own personal conviction. Who decides it doesn't matter...Isn't dishonouring your head a consideration of right or wrong. If I thought even in the least that my actions would dishonour my head which is Christ Jesus I would not even question the correctness or inconvenience of it...I would just do it. God told Moses to take off his shoe for he was on Holy ground...Was that a heaven or hell issue. We could argue, God wouldn't have sent Moses to hell if he disregarded the respect asked of him by God. Some say if God spoke to me from a burning bush, I'd do it. But if God speaks from his Word or through the preaching of a man of God they won't do it. Who decides what is honouring God or does it matter. We should just do these things and find out when we get to heven if it was actually necessary. I hear every kind of excuse that can be thought of to get out of doing something that is not even harmful to us in the first place. No wonder God calls us his children. We act like children.

Bob, this is a funny post. It really is. I mean, you are posting on women's standards and claim to follow them if you were a woman, but you are a man!!! You think it's so simple....LOL! You really have no idea, unless there is something you aren't telling us......

But aside from that, you are sidestepping the issue a bit. One pastor preaches one thing, another pastor preaches another. Both claim their standards are heaven and hell issues.

So who is right? Both claim to have Bible for their beliefs. This is a problem in the UPC and other churches as well.

But instead of addressing that issue, you want to talk about how easy it would be for you to follow women's dress standards if you were a woman.

Please. You have no idea anymore than you would agree to have ten children if you were a woman because you would embrace childbirth having no idea what childbirth is even like. LOL!

[Sister Alvear]

The word of God decides all issues...

[robert]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Ok, thanks, Brother. Thats one but, the question you posed was, HOW MANY. I'm dyin' to know. I think its a good question that will make us really thing about what you posted. So... there are ______ dos and don'ts in the NT. Just fill in the blank. And, what about the OT, how many are there in the OT?

The question was does any one know how many dos and don'ts are in the New Testament, or does any one care? I don't know the answer, that's the point would any one even want to count them. Promises no problem...commandments different reaction. The promises don't save us. obedience to every word does. My point being is, Saints try to get out of everything it seems, but want to do so little in honour of Jesus.

[robert]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Bob, this is a funny post. It really is. I mean, you are posting on women's standards and claim to follow them if you were a woman, but you are a man!!! You think it's so simple....LOL! You really have no idea, unless there is something you aren't telling us......

But aside from that, you are sidestepping the issue a bit. One pastor preaches one thing, another pastor preaches another. Both claim their standards are heaven and hell issues.

So who is right? Both claim to have Bible for their beliefs. This is a problem in the UPC and other churches as well.

But instead of addressing that issue, you want to talk about how easy it would be for you to follow women's dress standards if you were a woman.

Please. You have no idea anymore than you would agree to have ten children if you were a woman because you would embrace childbirth having no idea what childbirth is even like. LOL!

Re-read my post...long hair on women/short hair on men...The funny thing is when some one is anti-standard they allways try to make the one for standards as male chauvenist. Is this meant as away to discredit the pro-standard person. I believe modesty applys to men and women. Pastors are the preachers that God sent to teach us through preaching. My question is who decides what is the definition of modesty, man of God or the personal conviction.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by robert

The question was does any one know how many dos and don'ts are in the New Testament, or does any one care? I don't know the answer, that's the point would any one even want to count them. Promises no problem...commandments different reaction. The promises don't save us. obedience to every word does. My point being is, Saints try to get out of everything it seems, but want to do so little in honour of Jesus.

My dear brother we are not saved because we are obedient to every word. I love the LORD and want to obey His word more than anything in my life. Howver, within this flesh I find no good thing and that which I should do I at times cannot and that which I should not do at times I am guilty of BUT THANKS BE TO GOD FOR HIS GIFT --- JESUS! We cannot do it all on are own we are still saved by GRACE.

[robert]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Bob, this is a funny post. It really is. I mean, you are posting on women's standards and claim to follow them if you were a woman, but you are a man!!! You think it's so simple....LOL! You really have no idea, unless there is something you aren't telling us......

But aside from that, you are sidestepping the issue a bit. One pastor preaches one thing, another pastor preaches another. Both claim their standards are heaven and hell issues.

So who is right? Both claim to have Bible for their beliefs. This is a problem in the UPC and other churches as well.

But instead of addressing that issue, you want to talk about how easy it would be for you to follow women's dress standards if you were a woman.
Please. You have no idea anymore than you would agree to have ten children if you were a woman because you would embrace childbirth having no idea what childbirth is even like. LOL!

The only clothes I mentioned were Moses' shoes...if you can call shoes clothes.