United Pentecostal or Divided Pentecostal

[Jack Shephard]

I am sitting here before work and I am watching Pastor Tommy Bates from KY preaching. He is an old time Pentecostal preacher. He is preaching at a church that used to be Southern Baptist but it is now a Non-Denominal church. He was is talking about holding to a title. He names several denominations like Southern Baptist, etc. He mentioned United Pentecostal or Divided Pentecostal. I thought it was funny when heared in context. He is talking about holding to God's move and not to a title.

It got me to thinking. I know that we are not all UPC but as a whole are we a United Pentecostal Church or a Divided Pentecostal Church? He is talking about a time he and his family was asked to sing at a Pentecostal Church and they followed ALL the standards but they were all baptized in the titles. The pastor told them since they weren't baptized in Jesus name that they couldn't sing on the platform. I know that many of us like to hold our titles. It is funny that people that love holding on to a title are against baptizing in titles.

Even though there are fellowship lines that we may not cross now, but why? Why are we not A unified church across all lines? Why aren't we Pentecostals meeting with those that aren't just like us? Are we SO caught up with doctrine that we forsake fellowship? Why? Are there any people on here that are like me that think that we MUST fellowship with others inorder to make full advantage of what God wants us to accomplish? Sorry this is so lengthy.

I think that God's spirit is SO strong that if we are to fellowship others they will want a touch of the HG like that is on most of us. But sad to say that because we don't fellowship and we draw lines of division it make them not want ANYTHING we have.

[POWERUP]

Jtullock,
I've got to agree with you on this. If you read some of my earlier post you will know
more about me, and where I come from.

Even while I was in the UPC(Held licences for 17 years) Not one time did I ever stand
in a pulpit at my home church or away and tell people unless you are baptized in
Jesus name you are going to hell.

Just couldn't do it. Was I baptized in Jesus Name? Yes. That is how I was baptized and raised. I
will never condemm anyone for the way they see salvation.

The way I see it...............I don't care how you see salvation. Just let me see some
fruit. Trust me. If you are truly saved...................you will bear fruit!!!

No fruit on the tree. Don't attempt to tell me how to be saved. I think we all know
what the fruit is.

Have a good rest of the day..........

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by POWERUP

Jtullock,
I've got to agree with you on this. If you read some of my earlier post you will know
more about me, and where I come from.

Could they be any more vanilla than this one?

Originally Posted by POWERUP

Even while I was in the UPC(Held licences for 17 years) Not one time did I ever stand
in a pulpit at my home church or away and tell people unless you are baptized in
Jesus name you are going to hell.

So...this means that Jesus name baptism didn't really mean anything to you?
Could it be you saw two different formulas (which aren't two different formulas at all), and figured that it was a hit or miss, and felt that God would sort it all out in the end?

Originally Posted by POWERUP

Just couldn't do it.

And pretty pleased about it, I might add.

Originally Posted by POWERUP

Was I baptized in Jesus Name? Yes.

That was before you knew better...right?

How about no baptisms? How about if someone just says a sinner's prayer?

Originally Posted by POWERUP

That is how I was baptized and raised.

Oh, I see, you were raised in it, and therefore you couldn't see all the hub bub about what you were raised in? All the fuss about all those pages in that big black book?

Baptism in titles, baptism in Jesus name, sinner prayers, baby baptisms, and the real kicker, no one, but no one, like Mrs Foofoonick could possibly go to hell, because see was such a sweet and kind old lady.

She use to mow everyone's lawns, and bake cookies for serial killers in the state lockdown.

She wasn't Pennycost, she was, Episcopalian. Now could God, thrown someone that nice and cute in a burning hell? In a burning hell of torment, just because she didn't get baptized in Jesus name?

You would say no?

Originally Posted by POWERUP

I will never condemm anyone for the way they see salvation.

So that means what? Does that mean you have come up with a whish washy touchy feely I'm ok your ok Gospel? So, you didn't like it where Jesus said the way was narrow and the entrance was tight that led into eternal life, and few there would be who would enter in? So, we dab a little good old post modern political correctism to Jesus, so everyone can "feel" content, and happy that Jesus loves them just they way they are. No repentence, no change. We just stay the way we are? No condemnation in Christ Jesus, is ONLY for those who walk NOT after the flesh, but after the Spirit. His Spiirt, His will, not our own.

Originally Posted by POWERUP

The way I see it...............I don't care how you see salvation. Just let me see some
fruit.

Trust me. If you are truly saved...................you will bear fruit!!!

That makes no sense. You just made a stipulation which would constitute some sort plan of salvation. Are you saying there is a niceness soteriology in the Bible? You mean everyone who doesn't follow Jesus isn't kind and benevolent? There are some sweet people who are Muslims, Rastafarians, Buddhists, Hindus, and Atheists. Kind, sweet, charitable, selfless, and have been great enduring friends. Yet, do not accept a Jesus, a Jesus as only Lord and savior. People tend to lean towards other religions because the American form of Churchanity has become so watered down that it goes right through them. All you have to do to be a Chirstian is to be NICE, and always smile, and never have an off day. Oooo kay.

Originally Posted by POWERUP

No fruit on the tree.

Not only no fruit, but no tree. It sounds more like canned perserves.

Originally Posted by POWERUP

Don't attempt to tell me how to be saved.

I guess here we have some fruit?

Originally Posted by POWERUP

I think we all know
what the fruit is.

See quote above?

Originally Posted by POWERUP

Have a good rest of the day..........

No doubt.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

...

So...this means that Jesus name baptism didn't really mean anything to you?
Could it be you saw two different formulas (which aren't two different formulas at all), and figured that it was a hit or miss, and felt that God would sort it all out in the end?
...

Don't you think that someone can see the "importance" in Jesus' name baptism without making it a "heaven or hell" issue? Water baptism does confer a grace upon us (to use the old way of putting it). This grace or "empowerment" is a vital part of the Christian walk. But, the "remission of sins" flows from Calvary and our faith in what Jesus accomplished there and in the Garden tomb.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Don't you think that someone can see the "importance" in Jesus' name baptism without making it a "heaven or hell" issue? Water baptism does confer a grace upon us (to use the old way of putting it). This grace or "empowerment" is a vital part of the Christian walk. But, the "remission of sins" flows from Calvary and our faith in what Jesus accomplished there and in the Garden tomb.

This is a wise statement. I see the importance in baptism but no heaven or hell issue with in it or with out it. I see it as a public act of what is happening on the inside of a persons heart.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Don't you think that someone can see the "importance" in Jesus' name baptism without making it a "heaven or hell" issue?

Then why do it? Non-Heaven and Hell issues (the whole "is it heaven or hell" is an invention of Pentecost) are in reality are items that are not needed. Therefore baptism wouldn't be required at any level. Not heaven and hell is the same as saying you don't need to do it, plain and simple. Jesus told John that He needed to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness. Peter commanded the house of Cornelius to be baptized and even made sure he checked it with the Jews he brought with him. Jesus name baptism is important, you might not agree, but that wouldn't change what is explained in the scripture concerning baptisms importance.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Water baptism does confer a grace upon us (to use the old way of putting it). This grace or "empowerment" is a vital part of the Christian walk. But, the "remission of sins" flows from Calvary and our faith in what Jesus accomplished there and in the Garden tomb.

Water baptism is part and parcel to the New Testament Biblical teaching. Bypassing it would also mean bypassing the plan set out in the scriptures.
From Roman Catholics to Church of Christ even they see the importance of water baptism by submersion. Whittling down the Bible to suit some philosophy handed over from mainstream Churchanity, doesn't help anyone. It might help you fit in with mainstream American Churchanity and make your beer go down down smoother in one of their Pizza Bible studies, but it won't get anyone saved and started on their walk into the Kingdom.

Did any of you miss the, he that believes [trusts] and is baptized shall be saved verse in your Bibles?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be DAMNED.

Sounds heaven and hell to me.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[iceniez]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Then why do it? Non-Heaven and Hell issues (the whole "is it heaven or hell" is an invention of Pentecost) are in reality are items that are not needed. Therefore baptism wouldn't be required at any level. Not heaven and hell is the same as saying you don't need to do it, plain and simple. Jesus told John that He needed to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness. Peter commanded the house of Cornelius to be baptized and even made sure he checked it with the Jews he brought with him. Jesus name baptism is important, you might not agree, but that wouldn't change what is explained in the scripture concerning baptisms importance.






Water baptism is part and parcel to the New Testament Biblical teaching. Bypassing it would also mean bypassing the plan set out in the scriptures.
From Roman Catholics to Church of Christ even they see the importance of water baptism by submersion. Whittling down the Bible to suit some philosophy handed over from mainstream Churchanity, doesn't help anyone. It might help you fit in with mainstream American Churchanity and make your beer go down down smoother in one of their Pizza Bible studies, but it won't get anyone saved and started on their walk into the Kingdom.

Did any of you miss the, he that believes [trusts] and is baptized shall be saved verse in your Bibles?

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be SAVED; but he that believeth not shall be DAMNED.

Sounds heaven and hell to me.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

That is what Jesus said and I agree.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Then why do it? Non-Heaven and Hell issues (the whole "is it heaven or hell" is an invention of Pentecost) are in reality are items that are not needed.

Would you send me your coat and watch if I PM'd my mailing address to you? Would you send me a month's worth of pay from your entire household if I asked?

If not, are you going to hell? Matthew 5:42.

What about, Hebrews 9:28? Many people are still "looking for Him" to come the second time. Others feel that He has already come. Whichever side is wrong, are they going to hell, because He will "appear" only to those who look (or looked) for His coming?

The rest continues to get us off topic... but it does illustrate just how divide we are. What strikes me is that most of the causes for these divisions are less than 100 years old. Such passion over novelties makes the historian in me shake his head.

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could they be any more vanilla than this one?



So...this means that Jesus name baptism didn't really mean anything to you?
Could it be you saw two different formulas (which aren't two different formulas at all), and figured that it was a hit or miss, and felt that God would sort it all out in the end?



And pretty pleased about it, I might add.





That was before you knew better...right?

How about no baptisms? How about if someone just says a sinner's prayer?



Oh, I see, you were raised in it, and therefore you couldn't see all the hub bub about what you were raised in? All the fuss about all those pages in that big black book?

Baptism in titles, baptism in Jesus name, sinner prayers, baby baptisms, and the real kicker, no one, but no one, like Mrs Foofoonick could possibly go to hell, because see was such a sweet and kind old lady.

She use to mow everyone's lawns, and bake cookies for serial killers in the state lockdown.

She wasn't Pennycost, she was, Episcopalian. Now could God, thrown someone that nice and cute in a burning hell? In a burning hell of torment, just because she didn't get baptized in Jesus name?

You would say no?



So that means what? Does that mean you have come up with a whish washy touchy feely I'm ok your ok Gospel? So, you didn't like it where Jesus said the way was narrow and the entrance was tight that led into eternal life, and few there would be who would enter in? So, we dab a little good old post modern political correctism to Jesus, so everyone can "feel" content, and happy that Jesus loves them just they way they are. No repentence, no change. We just stay the way we are? No condemnation in Christ Jesus, is ONLY for those who walk NOT after the flesh, but after the Spirit. His Spiirt, His will, not our own.




That makes no sense. You just made a stipulation which would constitute some sort plan of salvation. Are you saying there is a niceness soteriology in the Bible? You mean everyone who doesn't follow Jesus isn't kind and benevolent? There are some sweet people who are Muslims, Rastafarians, Buddhists, Hindus, and Atheists. Kind, sweet, charitable, selfless, and have been great enduring friends. Yet, do not accept a Jesus, a Jesus as only Lord and savior. People tend to lean towards other religions because the American form of Churchanity has become so watered down that it goes right through them. All you have to do to be a Chirstian is to be NICE, and always smile, and never have an off day. Oooo kay.






Not only no fruit, but no tree. It sounds more like canned perserves.






I guess here we have some fruit?







See quote above?




No doubt.

It would be ETERNALY foolish for anyone to expect Jesus to sort out anything as pertaining to the plan of salvation when He has left it plainly on record for us to receive right NOW!!! Jesus said, "search the scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life". So, the opportunity to be saved is now granted to whosoever will: DON'T LET IT BE SAID TOO LATE like the rich man that died and went to hell; there will be NO sorting out later: ONLY ETERNAL JUDGMENT!!! The bible instructs us to "work out your OWN salvation in fear and trembling"...

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by POWERUP

Jtullock,
I've got to agree with you on this. If you read some of my earlier post you will know
more about me, and where I come from.

Even while I was in the UPC(Held licences for 17 years) Not one time did I ever stand
in a pulpit at my home church or away and tell people unless you are baptized in
Jesus name you are going to hell.

Just couldn't do it. Was I baptized in Jesus Name? Yes. That is how I was baptized and raised. I
will never condemm anyone for the way they see salvation.

The way I see it...............I don't care how you see salvation. Just let me see some
fruit. Trust me. If you are truly saved...................you will bear fruit!!!

No fruit on the tree. Don't attempt to tell me how to be saved. I think we all know
what the fruit is.

Have a good rest of the day..........

The FIRST regards to any TRUE witness is their Born Again {ACTS 2:37-38} testimony my friend. While I do fellowship and embrace all when it comes to showing myself friendly, and being a light/witness to all; you MUST have the greatest witness of being saved according to the Apostles Doctrine, and living that saved life that Jesus requires. Faithful are the wounds of a FRIEND; to disregard telling people of their need to be properly saved is a discredit to truths, and deception; especially when you know the true way of salvation: Jesus did not call us to be cowards just to be able to get along and/or fellowship with people-you gottuh have genuiine integrity to help anybody to see the light.